AMNA NAWAZ: More than two dozen House Republicans say they will not back the debt limit deal, saying Speaker McCarthy made too many concessions to the White House during negotiations.

One of them is Congressman Scott Perry.

He's chair of the House Freedom Caucus.

And I spoke with him earlier today.

Congressman Perry, welcome, and thanks for joining us.

So, assuming a majority of the Democratic Caucus will end up supporting this bill, you would need a significant chunk of your conference to be able to sink it.

Do you have those votes?

What does your math tell you?

REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): Well, we're not whipping against it right now.

We're informing the members, which, look, they just found out what was in this bill, the text.

They found out about the bill, that it existed.

That was on Saturday night.

The text came out on Sunday evening.

And so, into Monday, people are reading it.

Now, it's 100 pages.

So it's not a big bill.

But you got to read through the legislative language to see where the money's coming from and where it's going to.

And it can be very confusing.

For instance, in the bill, it says we're rescinding some COVID money.

But you would think that would go back to the Treasury to pay down the debt.

It's not going to the Treasury.

We're doing what's called banking it, which means we're just putting it in another account to spend it later.

So that's not really what people signed up for.

And there are other things, like the 87,000 IRS agents, $80 billion.

We're rescinding $1.4 billion of that, essentially -- or, ostensibly, we're told to stop the IRS for hiring more people to investigate Americans.

But they keep basically the $78.6 billion that they have in the bank that was given a lump sum appropriation that they can spend it any time.

So it really doesn't stop anything.

And so those are the things that members are finding out about.

And, when they find out about them, they say, well, I didn't sign up for this.

I'm not voting for this.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, you have made very clear you don't support this bill.

And, as we all know, any member of the Republican Conference can move forward with a motion to vacate and remove Speaker McCarthy from the speakership.

If you don't have the votes to sink this bill, and the bill does move forward, would you move to remove Speaker McCarthy?

REP. SCOTT PERRY: Well, we're going to have that discussion after this is done, Amna, but we're not done yet.

This is in Rules Committee.

There still might be amendments in the Rules Committee.

It still might not pass on the floor.

And so I'm never willing to really handicap those kinds of things, because you can get out ahead of your skis pretty quickly.

And then it's hard to reel things back in.

So, right now, we're focused on this and the debt ceiling and the fact, quite honestly, that the Senate hasn't passed anything, still is reluctant, apparently, to come to work.

And so the House has had to negotiate against its own position.

That's not where we should be.

We have passed a bill in the House of Representatives to deal with this.

We think it's high time that the Senate passes something, even has a hearing, or even marks up, writes that the bill text of a bill down that they can pass, before we keep asking House members, what are you willing to give up to not have this circumstance on this debt that we -- where we are right now?

Understand, Amna, this offers unlimited spending for the next two years.

So, that's essentially, I don't know, $4 trillion, $5 trillion, $6 trillion.

We will probably be at $36 trillion in debt at the end of this term, because it is -- there's no cap on this.

There's no limit whatsoever.

This is exactly what President Biden said and demanded back in January, when he said he wouldn't negotiate.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Congressman, let me -- let me ask you, let me ask you, if I may, because I know your time is limited.

The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, has said he backs the belly.

He hailed Mr. McCarthy for winning concessions from the White House and called on his Senate colleagues to move forward quickly on this.

But, again, if you do not have votes to end this bill -- I should mention to you you're colleague Chip Roy had said that, as part of the deal for Mr. McCarthy to secure the speakership, he agreed there needed to be unanimous Republican consent on the Rules Committee for a bill to move forward.

REP. SCOTT PERRY: Yes.

Yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: If that is true, and he does not have unanimous consent and moves forward, would you remove him from the speakership?

REP. SCOTT PERRY: Like I said, Amna, we're going to -- we're not going to talk about ifs right now.

We're going to talk about things we know for sure.

The Rules Committee is happening right now.

We're going to wait and see how that plays out.

There might be a great amendment that comes from that.

And so we're not going to -- we're just not going to handicap things like that, because it's not productive.

The American people are tired of paying too high prices for gasoline and for groceries and everything they buy.

And it's all stemming from this overspending at the federal level.

That's what we're focused on right now.

Once we get done with that, then we can come back and talk about other things.

AMNA NAWAZ: The timeline, sir, is what it is, though.

So, in the end, I have to ask, are you essentially advocating for a default here?

You are mere days away from that X-date?

REP. SCOTT PERRY: No.

No.

Amna, there's not going to be any default.

First of all, number one, the -- Janet Yellen has no credibility and is not -- actually, she started helping out the inflation rise to the level it is when she was at the Fed.

Then she didn't see inflation coming even as the as they passed the $1.7 trillion omnibus last September.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, sir, you say that to mean you don't believe the date that she's put forward?

Is that right?

REP. SCOTT PERRY: First of all, I call that into question.

Second of all, we know that, June, all the quarterly is going to come in.

The federal government is going to be flush - - flush with revenues that come in.

So all we have to do is get to the middle of the month, and that issue is all... (CROSSTALK) AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Congressman Perry, if I may, Goldman Sachs... REP. SCOTT PERRY: Yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: ... has put forward June 8 or 9 as their X-date.

Do you believe their numbers?

REP. SCOTT PERRY: They might be correct.

I don't know.

But, again, we can stop all this with recisions.

We could claw back the COVID money, all of it, and put it towards the debt.

We can claw back all that $80 billion for the IRS and put that towards the debt immediately.

We can do that right tonight in the Rules Committee and change the trajectory of all this.

And that's kind of the stuff we're looking for, so that we provide some space to negotiate and where the Senate can actually pass a bill.

AMNA NAWAZ: Speaker McCarthy and President Biden would say the negotiating has already happened.

And these are the concessions.

This is where the two sides came together.

And they would point out, you don't have the votes to kill this bill.

What would you say to that?

REP. SCOTT PERRY: Well, that might be true, but the only way we're going to find that out is to see the bill.

But these are folks that haven't even passed a bill.

First of all, President Biden isn't in the legislature.

He doesn't pass any bills.

And we know that this has to go before the Senate.

And why does everybody assume that the Senate is just going to pass this?

Just because Mitch McConnell says so, it doesn't mean that maybe Democrats are unhappy over there.

Certainly, Republicans probably aren't thrilled over there.

Once again, the Senate hasn't done its job.

And for there to be any real negotiation between the two sides and the two parties, it requires the Senate to pass a bill.

AMNA NAWAZ: Republican Congressman Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, chair of the House Freedom Caucus, thank you for making the time to join us today.

REP. SCOTT PERRY: Thank you.

I appreciate it.