THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS MADE POSSIBLE THANKS TO THE SUPPORT OF: BILAL: HELLO AND WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO THIS SPECIAL URBAN CONSULATE CONVERSATION.

I'M YOUR HOST, NAIMAH BILAL.

PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, WHETHER IT'S COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, NEIGHBORHOOD REVITALIZATION, OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THE PROJECTS WE PRIORITIZE CAN AND SHOULD BE VIEWED THROUGH THE LENS OF EQUITY.

HARRIS: SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT EQUITY IN CITIES, EQUITY IN CITIES SOMETIMES IS ABOUT THWARTING OUT-OF-TOWN INVESTORS.

GARDETTE: IN OUR CITY, WE DO NOT HAVE A HIGH OWNERSHIP RATE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS.

BILAL: THE IMPACT DEVELOPMENT WORK CAN HAVE ON THE COMMUNITY IS IMMENSE FROM THE BUSINESSES HIRED TO DO THE WORK TO THE RESIDENTS WHO WILL BENEFIT, OR EVEN BE DISPLACED.

SANDERS: WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE RIGHT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, IT IS MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY.

BILAL: DEVELOPMENT AND HOUSING POLICY HAVE REAL RIPPLE EFFECTS.

SO WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BUILD AND DEVELOP A CITY EQUITABLY?

THAT'S OUR FOCUS FOR TODAY.

ARE YOU READY?

LET'S GET TO IT.

[ MUSIC: SANKOFA (ASE) BY TRIIIBE ] EVERY CITY EVOLVES AND CHANGES OVER TIME, AS DO NEIGHBORHOODS.

HOWEVER, THE STATE OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS TODAY, THE DIVERSITY WITHIN THEM, THE WELL-BEING OF RESIDENTS, THE ECONOMIC PROSPERITY OR OPPORTUNITIES ARE EACH TIED TO THE PAST IN SMALL AND LARGER WAYS.

PAST FEDERAL AND LOCAL POLICIES AND RACIST REAL ESTATE PRACTICES HAVE SHAPED PARTS OF OUR CITY IN WAYS THAT HAVE LASTED FOR DECADES.

ADDITIONALLY, NEW DEVELOPMENTS AND DESIGNS ON LAND USE AND PROPERTY IN THE URBAN CORE CONTINUE TO CREATE CHALLENGES THAT CAN DISPLACE LONGTIME RESIDENTS.

SO TODAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING AN EQUITABLE CITY.

SPECIFICALLY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CITY DEVELOPMENT, NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT, AND HOUSING.

AND HELPING US DISCUSS THESE IMPORTANT SUBJECTS ARE THREE INSIGHTFUL MINDS IN THIS SPACE.

WE ARE PLEASED TO WELCOME NEWLY SWORN IN CITY COUNCILMEMBER REGGIE HARRIS.

REGGIE'S BACKGROUND AS AN EDUCATOR, A SOCIAL WORKER, AND THERAPIST LED HIM INTO PUBLIC SERVICE WHERE HE HAS FOCUSED ON, AMONG OTHER THINGS, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, DEVELOPMENT, AND ISSUES OF EQUITY.

WELCOME, REGGIE.

HARRIS: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

BILAL: NEXT UP IS A VERY, VERY GOOD FRIEND OF THE CONSULATE, KATHRYNE GARDETTE.

KATHERINE IS A CIVIC LEADER, SHE IS A CULTURAL INNOVATOR, AND IS A LONGTIME RESIDENT OF WALNUT HILLS, A VOCAL ADVOCATE FOR THE FLOURISHING OF COMMUNITIES.

WELCOME, KATHRYNE.

GARDETTE: IT'S MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE TODAY.

BILAL: AND ROUNDING OUT OUR GROUP TODAY IS ROBERT SANDERS.

ROBERT IS THE CREATOR AND FOUNDER OF THE SANDERS DEVELOPMENT GROUP, WHICH PROVIDES EXPERTISE AND CONSULTATION ON ALL ASPECTS OF REAL ESTATE AND DEVELOPMENT.

HE ALSO BRINGS A PASSION FOR SEEING HIS PROJECTS HAVE A POSITIVE COMMUNITY IMPACT.

WELCOME, ROBERT.

SANDERS: THANK FOR HAVING ME.

BILAL: SO WE ALL KNOW THAT CITIES ARE POWERED BY PEOPLE, AND CITIES ARE POWERED BY COMMUNITIES WHICH ANIMATE THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT.

AND SO YOU ARE EACH RESIDENTS OF THE CITY AND THROUGH YOUR WORK AND YOUR LIVED EXPERIENCE YOU CONTRIBUTE TO THE BUILDING OF THE CITY.

SO CAN YOU EACH SHARE.

I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU, ROBERT.

EACH SHARE WHAT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF EQUITABLE CITY BUILDING IS FOR YOU.

SANDERS: SURE.

YOU KNOW, FOR ME, IT'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

MAINLY, THE WEIRD ONE IS GOING TO BE AWARENESS, AND IT'S KIND OF SAD THAT I STILL HAVE TO TALK ABOUT AWARENESS, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT AWARENESS IS IN, YOU KNOW, BEING AWARE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES FOR INCLUSION IN A DIFFERENT WAY IN THE CITY, BEING AWARE THAT EVERYTHING WE DO, ESPECIALLY IN THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT, IMPACTS EVERYONE.

YOU KNOW, EVEN IF I DO A MARKET RATE DEVELOPMENT DEAL, IT'S GOING TO IMPACT SOMEBODY ELSE.

IF I DO AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT DEAL, IT'S GOING TO IMPACT OTHERS AS WELL.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT AWARENESS NEEDS TO HAPPEN, AT LEAST FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT AND REAL ESTATE TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE HAVING THE TYPES OF CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE.

ADDITIONALLY, FOR ME, IT'S DIVERSITY, BUT MORE SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, DIVERSITY IN LEADERSHIP.

YOU KNOW, ANY TIME YOU HAVE MORE LEADERSHIP THAT'S DIVERSE AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST RACE OR COLOR OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, JUST DIVERSE PEOPLE INVOLVED, YOU'RE GOING TO GET DIVERSE PROCESSES AND SOLUTIONS AND IDEATION, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH IDEAS THAT BETTER IMPACT THE CITY.

BILAL: ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU.

KATHRYNE.

GARDETTE: I LOVE WHAT ROBERT SAID THERE ABOUT DIVERSITY, NOT JUST OF RACE, BUT ALSO DIVERSITY OF PERSPECTIVE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU COME INTO WALNUT HILLS THERE'S A SIGN THAT SAYS: DIVERSE NEIGHBORHOOD SINCE 1800.

AND WE REALLY WANT TO CONTINUE THAT BELIEF.

AND THAT IS HOW I BELIEVE THAT EQUITABLE DEVELOPMENT OCCURS, THAT YOU HAVE THAT DIVERSITY.

AND IN THAT DIVERSITY BECOMES THAT AWARENESS.

YOU KNOW, IN OUR CITY WE DO NOT HAVE A HIGH OWNERSHIP RATE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS.

BECAUSE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY'RE DIRECTLY CONTRIBUTING TO THE TAX BASE.

A RENTER, THEY'RE ALSO CONTRIBUTING TO THAT TAX BASE WITH THEIR INCOME THAT THEY ARE PAYING IN THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL TAXES, BUT ALSO THE INCOME THAT THEY PAY FOR THEIR RENT THAT THEN GETS TALLIED INTO THE TAXES.

HARRIS: YEAH, KATHERYN, I LOVE WHAT YOU SAID BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY MADE ME SHIFT MY ANSWER.

AND SO PART OF WHEN I THINK WE THINK ABOUT EQUITY AND AN EQUITABLE CITY IS THAT THERE IS THE RELATIONSHIP OF ENGAGEMENT.

BECAUSE ONE CAN'T REALLY LABEL SOMETHING INEQUITABLE WHEN THERE IS NOT ENGAGEMENT.

AND WE SEE INEQUITIES WHEN WE SEE THE LACK OF ABILITY OF FOLKS TO ENGAGE.

AND SO WHEN I THINK ABOUT EQUITABLE CITIES, I THINK ABOUT IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE FOR MYSELF AS AN ELECTED PUBLIC OFFICIAL, AND I SEE MY JOB IS TO HELP CREATE THE CONDITIONS FOR EQUITABLE ENGAGEMENT.

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT AS A CITY, IN SPITE OF INCOME, RACE, CLASS, CREED, LOCATION, IF ONE WANTS TO ENGAGE WITH THE PROCESS IN THE CITY, THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.

AND THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO THAT MEETS THEM WHERE THEY'RE AT.

SO MAYBE WE EQUITABLE CITY BUILDING THINKS ABOUT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION LITERACY LEVELS, IT THINKS ABOUT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION MOBILITY, ACCESSIBILITY ISSUES.

IT TAKES ABOUT THINKING AND CONSIDERATION LEVELS OF CAPACITY BUILDING SOME NEIGHBORHOODS, I LIVE IN NORTH SIDE IN CINCINNATI, AND IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY OTHER PERSON IN NORTH SIDE IS AN URBAN PLANNER.

SO THIS IS A CITY THAT HAS A LOT.

THAT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS A LOT OF CAPACITY.

BUT WHAT ABOUT NEIGHBORHOODS THAT MAYBE DON'T HAVE NEIGHBORS THAT MAYBE HAVE THOSE SKILL SETS, BUT STILL HAVE THE EQUAL AMOUNT OF PASSION?

AND SO AN EQUITABLE CITY BUILDING, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IS THINKING ABOUT CREATING THOSE CONDITIONS WHERE ALL PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PARTICIPATE CAN FULLY PARTICIPATE.

BILAL: OH, WHAT AN EXCELLENT REPRESENTATION OF DIVERSITY OF YOUR THOUGHT, BUT THEY ALL CONVERGE UNDER ONE IDEA, AND THAT'S THE CONNECTION, THAT'S ENGAGEMENT, THAT'S AWARENESS.

SO WE KNOW WE CAN TRACE OUR CURRENT SITUATION TO THE PAST, RIGHT?

SO MUCH THAT IS HAPPENING NOW IN TERMS OF THE LINEAGE OF INEQUITY CAN BE TRACED BACK TO RACIST PRACTICES.

SO MUCH OF THE ENTRENCHED INEQUITIES CAN BE TRACED TO A CONCEPT THAT WE ALL KNOW AS REDLINING.

EACH OF YOU HERE WITH US TODAY, YOU UNDERSTAND THIS PRACTICE AND ITS IMPACTS THAT CONTINUE.

BUT TO ALL OF OUR VIEWERS AT HOME, WE'D LIKE TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THIS DEVASTATING SYSTEMIC ISSUE.

TAKE A LOOK.

VO: REDLINING.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN AND WHY DOES IT MATTER TO US TODAY?

FIRST, LET'S DEFINE REDLINING, AND TO DO THAT, A LITTLE HISTORY.

THE FAIR HOUSING ACT OF 1934 WAS THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSE TO A FLOOD OF FORECLOSURES DURING THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

THE LAW WAS MEANT TO HELP MORE AMERICANS GAIN ACCESS TO HOME LOANS AND CREDIT BY DOING SOMETHING THAT HAD NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE: PROVIDING FEDERAL BACKING FOR MORTGAGES.

THAT MEANT THAT BANKS WOULD NOT HAVE TO BEAR THE FULL BRUNT OF MORTGAGE RISK, AND BUYERS WOULD HAVE EASIER PAYMENT TERMS.

BUT ALONG WITH LESSENED RISK FOR BANKS AND EASIER TERMS FOR BUYERS CAME THE PRACTICE OF REDLINING.

REDLINING GETS ITS NAME FROM THE MAPS THAT WERE CREATED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WORKING IN PARTNERSHIP WITH LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO DETERMINE LEVELS OF RISK WHEN MAKING THOSE FHA BACKED LOANS.

THE LEVEL OF RISK WAS DETERMINED PRIMARILY BY RACE, WITH BLACK FAMILIES SEEN AS THE HIGHEST RISK REGARDLESS OF INCOME LEVEL.

THE MAPS WERE COLOR CODED WITH GREEN FOR BEST, BLUE FOR STILL DESIRABLE, YELLOW FOR DEFINITELY DECLINING, AND RED FOR HAZARDOUS.

AN AREA THAT WAS RED LINED MEANT THAT NO FEDERALLY BACKED LOANS WERE TO BE MADE THERE.

THE PRACTICE OF HOUSING SEGREGATION HAD BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES THROUGH RACIALLY RESTRICTIVE DEEDS AND COVENANTS, AS WELL AS OTHER REAL ESTATE PRACTICES.

BUT FOR THE FIRST TIME, IT WAS EMBEDDED IN FEDERAL POLICY, CEMENTING MUCH OF THE INFORMAL SEGREGATION TAKING PLACE DURING THE JIM CROW ERA.

IN CITY AFTER CITY, THE MAPS AND CENSUS TRACTS NOW AVAILABLE ONLINE THANKS TO RESEARCHERS AND HISTORIANS, SHOW THAT BLACK, BROWN AND IMMIGRANT NEIGHBORHOODS WERE CONSISTENTLY TARGETED FOR EXCLUSION FROM FHA BACKED INVESTMENT DUE TO RACE.

FOLKS LIVING IN THESE ZONES WERE TRAPPED.

THEY COULDN'T GET A CHEAP FHA LOAN TO MOVE TO A BETTER AREA, BUT ALSO COULDN'T GET CAPITAL TO MAINTAIN THEIR CURRENT HOME.

THIS SEGREGATIONIST POLICY CAN STILL BE SEEN IN CITY NEIGHBORHOODS TODAY.

FOR RED LINE NEIGHBORHOODS, DISINVESTMENT WAS FOLLOWED BY URBAN DECAY, WHICH FOR SOME, LIKE THE WEST END, WAS A GAME CHANGER.

WHILE NO FINAL REDLINING MAP FOR CINCINNATI STILL EXISTS TODAY, THERE'S NO DENYING THAT IT WAS PRACTICED HERE.

USING THE CENSUS TRACT MAPS FROM THE 1930S, ONE PRINCETON RESEARCHER, SCOTT OVERBY, EVEN MODELED WHAT THE FINAL MAPS IN CINCINNATI MAY HAVE LOOKED LIKE BY USING A NEARBY CITY WITH SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS.

AS YOU CAN SEE, THE WEST END IS CLEARLY AN AREA THAT WAS RIPE FOR TARGETING FROM THIS FEDERAL LOAN POLICY.

AFTER ALL, IT WAS AT ONE TIME, HOME TO 80% OF BLACK FAMILIES IN THE CITY, AS WELL AS OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS AND EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS.

UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE WEST END, REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT PRACTICES AND DISINVESTMENT IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY, FOLLOWED BY REDLINING IN THE '30S AND '40S, LED TO HOUSING STOCK DEGRADATION AND THE ULTIMATE LABEL AS A SLUM BY CITY PLANNERS.

DECIMATED BY REDLINING, THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS THEN GUTTED IN THE 1950S AND '60S AS PART OF AN URBAN RENEWAL PLAN THAT DESTROYED MUCH OF ITS HOUSING.

ONCE THAT WAS GONE, CITY LEADERS USED FEDERAL DOLLARS TO DIVIDE THE NEIGHBORHOOD INTO TWO, CREATING QUEENSGATE FOR EXPANDED INDUSTRIAL USAGE AND THE WEST END FOR RESIDENTIAL.

IN THE MIDDLE, WHERE THERE WERE ONCE MANY FAMILIES LIVING AND THRIVING, THEY BUILT A HIGHWAY.

NOW, FAMILIES LIVING IN OUTLYING NEIGHBORHOODS, PLACES THAT BLACK FAMILIES IN THE WEST END AND OTHER AREAS WERE EXCLUDED FROM FOR DECADES, WOULD HAVE AN EASIER DRIVE IN AND OUT OF DOWNTOWN.

THIS IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE, THOUGH.

SO WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO DIG DEEPER.

THE DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES CAPTURED BY THE REDLINING MAPS CONTINUED UNTIL 1968, WHEN THE FAIR HOUSING ACT BANNED RACIAL DISCRIMINATION IN HOUSING.

BUT 50 YEARS AFTER THAT LAW PASSED, THE LINGERING EFFECTS OF REDLINING ARE CLEAR.

WITH THE PATTERN OF ECONOMIC AND RACIAL RESIDENTIAL SEGREGATION STILL EVIDENT IN MANY U.S. CITIES, INCLUDING OUR OWN.

BILAL: JUMPING OFF FROM THAT SUMMARY, WE CAN SEE HOW THE LEGACY OF REDLINING AND ALL OF THE HISTORIC RACE BASED EXCLUSIONARY TACTICS CAN CARRY FORWARD EVEN TODAY.

NOW, ANOTHER IMPACT WE STILL LIVE WITH TODAY, ACCORDING TO RECENT REPORTS FROM THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTE, IS THAT THE SYSTEMIC DEVALUATION OF HOMES, CALL IT A NEO REDLINING, IF YOU WILL, THAT REVEALS THAT DIFFERENCES IN NEIGHBORHOOD QUALITY OR HOUSE QUALITY DON'T ACTUALLY TELL THE FULL PICTURE OF DEVALUATION OF HOMES IN MAJORITY BLACK COMMUNITIES.

AND SO AS WE BRING THIS TO THE PRESENT AND INTO OUR OWN EXPERIENCES, I HAVE A GENUINE CURIOSITY TO KNOW HOW HAS REDLINING IMPACTED YOUR PERSONAL LIVES?

KATHRYNE?

GARDETTE: FROM DAY ONE, IT'S BEEN AN IMPACT.

I HAD THE PLEASURE OF GROWING UP IN THE HOUSE THAT MY GRANDPARENTS BOUGHT ON RUTH AVENUE IN EVANSTON.

BUT WHEN THEY BOUGHT THAT HOUSE IN 1944, THEY WERE ONE OF THE FIRST FAMILIES OF COLOR TO BUY ON THAT STREET.

AND ACTUALLY THE HOUSE THEY WANTED WAS THE HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET.

BUT THE REALTOR WOULD NOT SELL IT TO THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE BLACK.

BUT GO INTO THE '60S WHEN THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAD COMPLETELY CHANGED, WHERE THE NUMBER ONE CRIME STAT FOR THE CITY OF CINCINNATI WAS ON THE CORNER OF ST.

LEDGER AND WOODBURN AVENUE.

WHEN BY THAT TIME, ALL OF THE HOUSES HAD BEEN DEVALUED, SECTION 8 HAD MOVED INTO THE HOUSE.

THERE WERE THE ST. LEGER APARTMENTS THAT IN THE EARLY DAYS WHEN MY GRANDPARENTS LIVED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS THIS BEAUTIFUL NEIGHBORHOOD APARTMENT BUILDING.

BUT BY THE TIME I WAS A TEENAGER WAS DEFINITELY LOW INCOME, HIGH CALLS FOR SERVICE FROM THE POLICE STATION THERE.

OR TO MY ADVOCACY IN WALNUT HILLS AND BEING QUITE AWARE THAT WE ARE A DIVERSE NEIGHBORHOOD.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD, IF YOU REALLY GO DOWN INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU LOOK AT THE QUADRANTS THAT ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT THE ECONOMICS OF THE HOUSING, THE ECONOMICS OF THE FAMILIES THAT ARE LIVING THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC TO THOSE QUADRANTS.

YES, WALNUT HILLS WAS FORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE THE ONLY BUSINESS DISTRICT THAT WAS A BLACK BUSINESS DISTRICT FROM THE GROUND UP.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AROUND THE WHOLE COMMUNITY, YOU CAN SEE HOW ECONOMICS PLAYED AN IMPACT FOR HOW RESIDENTS LIVED IN THERE.

AND THEN YOU SPAN OUT TO TO OTHER COMMUNITIES.

LIKE THE WEST END, WHERE WE HAD THIS PROSPEROUS BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WAS FLAT LINED FOR AN EXPRESSWAY ON THE PROMISE THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE BUILT BACK.

BUT THAT HISTORY IS STILL THERE.

OR THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT'S GOING INTO THAT AREA RIGHT NOW.

WHAT ARE THE ECONOMICS OF THE HOUSING STOCK THAT IS BEING BUILT THERE?

SO, YES, REDLINING HAS, IT HAS BEEN FROM MY BIRTH TO WHERE I AM 60 YEARS LATER.

HARRIS: SO I HAVE A VERY SIMILAR STORY AS KATHRYNE.

SO I GREW UP ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF CHICAGO IN A NEIGHBORHOOD CALLED INGLEWOOD.

AND I THINK THAT IF WE GO BACK TO RECENT SORT OF POPULAR CULTURE, THERE IS THE BOOK WRITTEN THE DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY.

AND IT TALKED ABOUT INGLEWOOD AT THAT TIME, IN THE, YOU KNOW, THE BEGINNING OF THE 20TH CENTURY, INGLEWOOD WAS SORT OF LIKE CONSIDERED LIKE A FIRST RING SUBURB OF CHICAGO.

IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY.

BEAUTIFUL, GORGEOUS HOUSES AND STILL EXIST TO THIS DAY.

MY GRANDMOTHER BOUGHT HER HOUSE AND I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO GROW UP IN THE HOUSE THAT MY GRANDMOTHER BOUGHT IN 1973, WAS SHARING EARLIER ON A HUD PROGRAM THAT'S NOW DEFUNCT, CALLED, I THINK IT WAS SECTION 35 THAT ALLOW FOLKS ON MIXED INCOMES TO BUY HOUSES.

BUT WHAT I SAW WHEN I WAS BORN IN THE EARLY '80S WAS THAT REALLY SORT OF ALMOST DEVILISH IMPACT OF REDLINING IS THE EXTRACTION OF CAPITAL AND ASSETS OUT OF COMMUNITIES AND THEN THE BLOCKING OF CAPITAL TO COME BACK INTO COMMUNITIES.

AND SO WHEN YOU -- SO WHEN THE MORTGAGES THAT ARE BEING GIVEN OUT BY BANKS IN THOSE COMMUNITIES ARE THESE MORTGAGES THAT ARE INSANE WITH INSANE INTEREST RATES.

AND SO NOW WHEN A ROOF -- YOU GET YOUR ROOF REPAIRED, YOU CAN'T.

SO WHAT HAPPENS IF HOUSE FALLS INTO DISARRAY, THEN IT GOES INTO FORECLOSURE, RIGHT?

SO THE IDEA IS THAT REDLINING, THE INSIDIOUSNESS MAKES IT SEEM AS IF THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE LET THE COMMUNITY FALL APART.

WHAT HAPPENS IS IS THAT YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT ACCESS TO CAPITAL.

AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE MANY INSTITUTIONS WORKING TOGETHER TO DEVALUE THOSE COMMUNITIES, AND THAT'S WHAT I SAW.

AND THEN I LIVED THROUGH THE, YOU KNOW, THE CRACK EPIDEMIC.

SO IT WAS A FURTHER DEVALUATION.

AND SO FOR ME, I BECAME ONE OF THOSE GENERATIONS OF YOUNG BLACK FOLKS THAT SAW MY COMMUNITY AS NOT HAVING WORTH AND NOT HAVING VALUE.

AND FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE, I HAD TO LEAVE.

AND SO YOU SEE A BRAIN DRAIN FROM COMMUNITIES BECAUSE YOU FEEL LIKE THERE'S NOTHING OF VALUE IN YOUR COMMUNITY, IN ORDER TO BE SUCCESSFUL, YOU HAD TO LEAVE.

AND SO THAT FURTHER EXTRACTS ASSETS AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE, THE REAL VALUE OF IT.

AND SO, YEAH, SO LIKE KATHRYNE SAID, IT WAS THERE FROM DAY ONE AND IT IS WHY I AM HERE IN THIS MOMENT.

SANDERS: THAT'S A REALLY GOOD RESPONSE FROM BOTH OF YOU GUYS.

AND YEAH, I'M GOING TO FOCUS ON A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, BUT I DITTO ALL OF THOSE SENTIMENTS.

I THINK YOU MENTIONED ACCESS TO CAPITAL AND WHERE I'VE SEEN IT COME INTO PLAY IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK I SHARED WITH YOU GUYS, I WAS A BUSINESS BANKER.

AND YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE IN BUSINESS, WHAT DO YOU NEED IN ORDER TO GROW AND SUSTAIN WEALTH?

ACCESS TO CAPITAL.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, MY TIMES AS A BUSINESS BANKER, YOU KNOW, I WORKED WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT BUSINESS OWNERS.

I ACTUALLY SPECIALIZE IN SBA FINANCING.

AND AS YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOAN TO BUY ANYTHING, WHAT ARE YOU TYPICALLY NEED?

YOU NEED A DOWN PAYMENT.

WHERE DO YOU THINK MOST OF MY CLIENTS WERE GETTING THEIR DOWN PAYMENT FROM?

THE EQUITY IN THEIR HOME.

AND IF THEY DIDN'T GET THE EQUITY IN THEIR HOME, GUESS WHAT?

OH, YOU KNOW, "I'M GOING TO TALK TO MY DAD AND HE'S GOING TO GET THE EQUITY.

HE'S GOING TO GIVE ME A DOWN PAYMENT."

AND SO, AS I STARTED TO SEE THAT HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, OFTEN AND, YOU KNOW, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, IT'S LIKE, WOW, IT REALLY HELPED ME SEE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE IMPACT OF REDLINING.

WHICH BY THE WAY, I'M, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY THE LAST 10 YEARS I'VE LEARNED ABOUT IT, BUT IT HELPED ME SEE KIND OF HOW THE FACT THAT WE WERE DELAYED AND HAVING OPPORTUNITIES TO HAVE OWNERSHIP AND CREATE THAT EQUITY, IT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF OPPORTUNITIES THAT YOU CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE DOWN PAYMENT ON A LOAN.

AND FOR ME, LIKE PERSONALLY, HAVING TO TELL, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF MINORITIES NO WAS NOT A GOOD SITUATION TO BE IN.

AND SO THAT'S HOW IT IMPACTED ME PERSONALLY.

BUT I THINK SYSTEMICALLY, THAT'S HOW IT IMPACTS US FROM WEALTH CREATION AND ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT THINGS.

BILAL: IT'S GOT TO HAVE AN IMPACT BEING REALLY ON THE FRONT LINES AND SEEING THE SYSTEM WORK TO ENTRENCH THAT POWER.

SANDERS: ABSOLUTELY.

BILAL: SO, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT YOU MENTIONED, ACTUALLY, KATHRYNE.

SO YOU TALKED ABOUT THE WEST END COMMUNITY BEING RAZED TO MAKE WAY FOR THE EXPRESSWAY.

AND SO I WANT TO GROUND US WHERE WE ARE TODAY BECAUSE OF COURSE, WE'RE SITTING IN THE BEAUTIFUL STUDIOS OF CET IN THE WEST END COMMUNITY.

AND TO YOUR POINT, KATHRYNE, THIS COMMUNITY CONTINUES TO BE IMPACTED BY DISPLACEMENT TO TODAY BECAUSE JUST, YOU KNOW, TO OUR LEFT OR RIGHT, DEPENDING ON WHICH DIRECTION YOU'RE IN, WE HAVE A BIG BRAND NEW STADIUM HERE, WHICH AFTER MUCH COMMUNITY OPPOSITION LANDED ITS WAY HERE.

IT WAS ORIGINALLY SUPPOSED TO GO IN ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD AND WAS WHICH WAS A DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC AND THAT NEIGHBORHOOD SAID NO.

AND SO IT CAME HERE.

AND SO CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE SIGNIFICANCE AND LINEAGE OF DISPLACEMENT?

AND HOW CAN COMMUNITIES BE POSITIONED TO ADVOCATE FOR THEMSELVES IN A WAY THAT MAKES THEM THE DETERMINANTS OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR COMMUNITIES.

GARDETTE: ENGAGEMENT.

THERE IS, THE CITY OF CINCINNATI, THE 52 NEIGHBORHOODS ARE RECOGNIZED BY THE CITY OF CINCINNATI, THEIR AREA COUNCIL, THEIR ASSEMBLY, WHATEVER IT'S NAMED.

AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU'RE A HOMEOWNER OR A RENTER, YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN THAT COMMUNITY COUNCIL MEETS.

AND YOU LISTEN, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LISTEN, YOU LEARN OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

SOME NEIGHBORHOODS ARE MORE ENGAGED THAN OTHERS.

I LIKE TO THINK THAT WE AND WALNUT HILLS HAVE A HISTORY OF INCLUSIVITY, DIVERSITY OF THOUGHT, AND PROCESSES, BECAUSE PROCESSES WHEN IT COMES TO DEVELOPMENT INTO KNOWLEDGE REALLY MAKES AN IMPACT ON WHAT IS GOING TO OCCUR IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT IS LIKE WHEN THE CITY WAS DOING FORM BASED CODE AND YOU ACTUALLY HAD TO, AS A COMMUNITY, PUT MONEY ON THE TABLE FOR THE CONSULTANT, THE OTHER HALF OF THE CONSULTANT'S FEE TO BE PAID.

WELL, WALNUT HILLS WAS ONE OF THE FIRST NEIGHBORHOODS TO SAY, "WE'RE GOING TO PAY TO PLAY BECAUSE WE KNOW THE IMPORTANCE."

AND NOT ONLY DID WE HAVE OUR BUSINESSES ENGAGED IN THE CONVERSATION, WE HAD OUR RESIDENTS ENGAGED IN THE CONVERSATIONS, OUR SENIORS ENGAGED IN THE CONVERSATIONS, OUR FAMILIES INVOLVED IN THE CONVERSATIONS, RENTERS, PROPERTY OWNERS.

BECAUSE IT IS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR COMMUNITY THAT TRULY MAKES AN IMPACT.

IT'S WORK, AND IT CAN BE WORK OF FIVE MINUTES OR WORK OF FIVE HOURS, BUT YOU LIVE IN A COMMUNITY, YOU LIVE IN THE CITY.

KNOWING WHAT IS GOING ON IS YOUR HOMEWORK.

BILAL: SO, COUNCILMAN HARRIS, LOOK, I KNOW YOU SAID CALL YOU, REGGIE, BUT I NEED TO PUT RESPECT ON YOU.

HARRIS: OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

BILAL: SO COUNCILMAN HARRIS, I WANT TO FIRST AGAIN CONGRATULATE YOU ON YOUR VERY SUCCESSFUL BID.

HARRIS: THANK YOU.

BILAL: YOU ARE NOW A MEMBER OF CINCINNATI CITY COUNCIL.

AND I'M PERSONALLY EXCITED FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP.

AND YES, I DID VOTE FOR YOU BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT ONE DOES.

BUT ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I GET REALLY EXCITED IS YOU RAN ON A REALLY ROBUST PLATFORM, ALL THESE DIFFERENT PILLARS, BUT ONE THAT LOOMED REALLY LARGE WAS THAT OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND EQUITABLE DEVELOPMENT.

AND AS IT RELATES TO HOUSING POLICY AND DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, SHAPING POLICY DECISIONS REALLY OFTEN DEPENDS ON SPECIAL INTERESTS LOBBYISTS SHOWING UP IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS AND ADVOCATING FOR THEMSELVES OR FOR THEIR CLIENTS.

AND, YOU KNOW, PROJECTS GET GREENLIT BECAUSE AS WE'VE SPOKEN TO BEFORE, RELATIONSHIPS POWER EVERYTHING.

AND WHEN WE SPEAK TO ACCESS, IT'S LIKE WHO HAS THE ACCESS TO CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS?

AND SO HOW DO YOU CONCEIVE OF ORIENTING YOUR WORK AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PEOPLE TO FACILITATE WHAT I REALLY DO THINK IS LIKE A SHIFT IN POWER?

HARRIS: YES.

BILAL: SHIFT IN ACCESS.

HOW DOES THAT LOOK TO YOU?

HARRIS: YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL LAYERS TO THAT.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, VICE MAYOR KEARNEY SAYS ALL THE TIME THAT CITY HALL IS THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, AND IT REALLY IS.

I LOVE WALKING INTO CITY HALL EVERY DAY AND THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO AS ELECTED OFFICIALS TO HAVE FOLKS, HAVE CINCINNATIANS FEEL LIKE THAT IS THEIR HOME, RIGHT?

THAT'S THE ONUS IS ON US.

BUT CITY HALL IS NOT OFF LIMITS, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, LIKE, COME IN, COME IN AND PARTICIPATE.

BUT THE SECOND THING IS THAT IT'S ABOUT A MATTER OF PRIORITIES.

AND I THINK HOW PRIORITIES CAN HELP THEN SHIFT INFLUENCE AND POWER.

WE'RE IN A VERY UNIQUE SPACE IN CINCINNATI AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

CINCINNATI FOR, I MEAN, SO THE CENSUS CAME OUT, WE RECOGNIZE THAT WE ARE GROWING FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES, SO THAT IS GREAT.

SO MUCH OF OUR POLICY AROUND HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AND TRANSPORTATION WAS REALLY ABOUT TRIAGING PEOPLE LEAVING THE CITY.

AND OUR POLICIES ARE ABOUT, LIKE, STAY AT ALL COST.

SO WE WILL ABATE EVERYTHING JUST AS LONG AS YOU STAY.

AND WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE LEADERSHIP THAT THOUGHT ABOUT URBAN RENEWAL.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR CITY, NEIGHBORHOODS AND CITIES TO GROW, BUT ALSO RESPECT THE HISTORY AND THE LEGACY RESIDENTS THAT ARE THERE WHILE ADDING NEW RESIDENTS AND ADDING MORE INVESTMENT?

SO WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES WHERE THAT'S THE CENTER.

WITH THIS NEW COUNCIL AND THIS NEW MAYOR, THAT IS SHAPING THE LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES.

SO, WE FORMED A COMMITTEE, EQUITABLE GROWTH AND HOUSING.

IT'S THE FIRST TIME IN THE HISTORY OF THE CITY OF CINCINNATI, WHERE HOUSING HAD A COMMITTEE TO BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GROWING FOR THE FIRST TIME.

WE'RE NOT LIKE GROWING, YOU KNOW, REALLY, REALLY FAST, BUT WE'RE GROWING.

AND SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO GROW, TO INVEST IN COMMUNITIES, KEEP ORIGINAL RESIDENTS, BUT ALSO CREATE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY?

WHEN A COUNCIL AND A MAYORAL ADMINISTRATION SETS THOSE AS LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES, THAT ACTUALLY THEN SHIFTS WHO COMES TO CITY HALL.

AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M REALLY HAPPY TO SHARE IS THE NUMBER OF EMAILS I GET FROM RESIDENTS THAT ARE LIKE, "OH, JUST SO YOU KNOW, I LIVE IN PRICE HILL AND HERE ARE SOME IDEAS THAT I HAVE."

I HAD A RESIDENT WHO SAID, "LISTEN, I HAVE A SKILL SET, MY FAMILY HAS A LITTLE BIT OF CAPITAL.

WE WANT TO GET INTO THE DEVELOPMENT GAME."

AND SO IT'S LIKE, OH, WE TALK ABOUT CREATING THOSE CONDITIONS, NOW IT'S, LIKE, OH, SO THAT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO.

YOU KNOW, MAYBE, MAYBE ROBERT NEEDS TO BECOME A MENTOR FOR UP AND COMING DEVELOPERS.

AND SO I THINK THAT JUST THE BIG PART OF IT IS THE PRIORITIES OF THINKING ABOUT THE CITY OF CINCINNATI AND THINKING ABOUT IT THROUGH AN EQUITY LENS AND BY NAMING IT IN A COMMITTEE AND THEN HAVING THAT SHAPE AS A SORT OF LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES, IT'S HOW WE SHIFT AND HOW WE SHIFT ABOUT OUR THINKING ABOUT CINCINNATI AS A CITY THAT HAS A LOT OF VALUE, A LOT OF ASSETS, AND A PLACE THAT WE WANT TO PROTECT THAT.

BUT THEN ALSO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE.

BILAL: I LOVE THAT.

GARDETTE: I JUST NEED TO TO INTERJECT THAT, SO TRUE.

I WAS -- WE HAVE A HOUSING RESOURCE COMMITTEE AT THE WALNUT HILLS AREA COUNCIL AND ONE OF THE PARTICIPANTS CAME IN THAT WE'LL GIVE YOU TAX ABATEMENTS IN THE '90S, MOVED INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AS WITH MANY OF HER NEIGHBORS.

AND NOW THEY'RE RETIRED AND ON FIXED INCOMES.

AND THEY LOOK AT THE ASSESSMENT OF THIS LAST TAX AND HOW MUCH IT INCREASED.

AND THEY'RE NOW WITHIN THEIR HOUSING UNIT, THEY'RE DISCUSSING, CAN WE ACTUALLY AFFORD TO STAY HERE?

ARE WE BEING PRICED OUT?

BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE OF THE TAX BASE, YOU KNOW, THEIR MORTGAGE IS PAID OFF, BUT THE TAXES KEEP RISING?

HARRIS: YEAH, YEAH.

BILAL: SUCH COMPLEXITY THERE.

I WANT TO JUST CIRCLE BACK TO YOU, ROBERT, BECAUSE TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILMAN HARRIS, THERE IN A CITY THAT DEMOGRAPHICALLY IS NEARLY HALF BLACK, LESS THAN A FRACTION, I MEAN, AN INFINITESIMALLY SMALL GROUP OF DEVELOPERS ARE ACTUALLY BLACK.

AND SO TALK ABOUT WHAT STEPS CAN BE TAKEN, BOTH AT THE PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SECTOR LEVEL, TO ENABLE A MORE REPRESENTATIVE BALANCE OF PEOPLE WHO SHAPE OUR SPACE.

SANDERS: YOU KNOW, THE KEY WORD FOR ME IS REALLY EXPOSURE.

YEAH, WE'VE GOT TO DO A MUCH BETTER JOB AT EXPOSING, YOU KNOW, THE YOUTH IN PARTICULAR TO DIFFERENT OCCUPATIONS AND CAREERS.

YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER BEING IN HIGH SCHOOL, THERE'S NO WAY I THOUGHT ABOUT COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT.

I KNEW I LIKED REAL ESTATE, BUT I DIDN'T THINK COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT.

AND WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, THESE KIDS AT THESE HIGH SCHOOLS WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SO INNOVATIVE, THINK WAY FASTER THAN WE DO BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND FOR ME, IT'S HOW DO WE, AND NOT JUST REAL ESTATE, IT'S HOW DO WE CONNECT THEM TO EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON IN THE CITY THAT'S GOING TO POTENTIALLY HELP CREATE WEALTH?

AND HOW DO WE GET THEM TO PLUG INTO IT?

I GUARANTEE YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ENROLLMENT OF COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE AT ANY OF THE UNIVERSITIES, IT'LL LOOK A CERTAIN WAY.

YOU KNOW, THERE WON'T BE VERY MANY MINORITIES PARTICIPATING BECAUSE IN THEORY, WE JUST FOR SOME REASON WE FEEL SO FAR REMOVED FROM IT, FOR REASONS THAT WE ALL KNOW.

AND SO I THINK WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK INTO CONNECTING, YOU KNOW, THE YOUTH TO OPPORTUNITIES.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, I WENT TO TAFT HIGH SCHOOL.

YOU KNOW, WHY ISN'T TAFT HIGH SCHOOL CONNECTING WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI TO HAVE AN INNOVATION PROGRAM?

YOU KNOW, AND I SAY, I WILL SAY THAT OF ALL THE CPS, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT YOU KNOW, IN ADDITION TO THAT, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MENTORSHIP.

I THINK FROM A PUBLIC STANDPOINT, AND WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION IS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE ACCESS TO REAL ESTATE AND THAT'S BEEN THE CASE FOR 20 YEARS.

AND SO IN MY MIND, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE UNHAPPY WITH THE STATUS OF WHERE WE SIT FROM AN INCLUSION STANDPOINT AS IT RELATES TO OWNERSHIP, THEN WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO AS A CITY TO WORK TOGETHER TO FIX THAT?

AND ME PERSONALLY, I ALWAYS TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING UNCOMFORTABLE.

I'M WHERE I AM BECAUSE I WAS WILLING TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE.

I'M SURE YOU GUYS AREN'T WHERE YOU ARE BECAUSE YOU SAT BACK AND WAS CONTENT.

YOU PUT YOURSELF OUT THERE AND YOU GOT UNCOMFORTABLE.

WELL, IF WE'VE GOT ORGANIZATIONS IN THE CITY THAT ARE REALLY IMPACTFUL AND A FACTOR AS IT RELATES TO REAL ESTATE, THEY'VE GOT TO BE WILLING TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE.

AND WHEN I SAY THAT, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, HERE'S JUST A SMALL EXAMPLE.

WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT REDLINING AND HOW FAR BEHIND WE ARE IN COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE, AND EVEN EVEN JUST IN HOME OWNERSHIP.

SO IF I'M A NEW DEVELOPER AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS IN BANKING, SO I KNOW HOW TO UNDERWRITE CREDIT, SO I KNOW WHAT DEALS LOOK LIKE, AND I WORKED FOR BANKS AND I UNDERSTAND THAT PIECE.

AND SO IF I TRY TO APPLY FOR A PROPERTY, LIKE YOUR FAMILY MEMBER, I THINK YOU SAID, THEY SAID, "I WANT TO GET INTO DEVELOPMENT."

WELL, REMEMBER THESE ORGANIZATIONS, THEY HAVE PRICE POINTS ON THE REAL ESTATE.

AND SO WHAT HAPPENS SOMETIMES IS, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THE NEWER DEVELOPER THAT HAS NEVER DONE IT BEFORE, SAYING, "HEY, I NEED TO GET THE PROPERTY FOR," I'M MAKING THIS NUMBER UP.

"I NEED TO GET IT FOR $100,000."

AND THEN YOU'VE GOT AN EXPERIENCED DEVELOPER SAYING, "I NEED, YOU KNOW, I'M WILLING TO PAY $150,000."

THIS GUY, THIS MINORITY DEVELOPER THAT'S TRYING TO GET INTO SPACE NEEDS THAT CUSHION BECAUSE HE HAS LESS MARGIN FOR ERROR THAN THE EXPERIENCED DEVELOPER.

AND SO I SHARED IT TO SAY, YEAH, WE'VE GOT TO BE WILLING TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE.

SELL IT TO THE MINORITY THAT'S TRYING TO JUMP INTO THE SPACE AND ALSO ENSURE THAT THEY'VE GOT SOME CUSHION AND INCREASED MARGIN FOR ERROR.

AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT NEWER DEVELOPER IS, LIKE, "YOU KNOW WHAT?

WELL, I CAN'T PAY $150,000, SO I'M OUT."

WHERE DOES THE PROPERTY GO?

SO I JUST THINK WE'VE GOT TO GET CREATIVE.

AND THAT'S NO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NO KNOCK ON ANY OF THE ORGANIZATIONS.

THEY'VE GOT OVERHEAD ALL THIS STUFF TO DEAL WITH.

HOWEVER, WE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE UNCOMFORTABLE, OTHERWISE THE CITY IS GOING TO STAY IN THE SAME PLACE FROM AN OWNERSHIP STANDPOINT.

AND I THINK WE CAN DO A MUCH BETTER JOB AT THAT.

BILAL: YEAH, WHAT YOU'RE SPEAKING TO IS INVESTING IN EQUITY, REALLY, IT'S AN INVESTMENT.

SANDERS: CORRECT.

BILAL: YOU KNOW, THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE EVERYBODY LOVES WHEN CINCINNATI MAKES IT IN THE HEADLINES.

EVERY TIME I GET A CALL FROM A FRIEND OR A TEXT, "LOOK, CINCINNATI'S IN THE NEW YORK TIMES."

IT'S LIKE THIS BIG DEAL.

BUT THIS WEEK, FORTUITOUSLY, I GET A TEXT MESSAGE FROM YOU, KATHRYNE, WALL STREET JOURNAL, FRONT PAGE.

AT LEAST THE STORY WAS BIG ENOUGH TO MAKE IT IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL.

AND AS HEADLINES OFTEN DO, THEY REVEAL THE POLITICAL LEANINGS OF THE PUBLICATION FROM WHICH THEY CAME.

BUT THE HEADLINE READS: CINCINNATI AGENCY BUYS NEARLY 200 RENTAL HOMES THWARTING PRIVATE INVESTORS.

I FEEL LIKE THAT HEADLINE COULD HAVE EASILY SAID, LIKE, CINCINNATI AGENCY BUYS 200 HOMES ADVANCING EQUITABLE HOUSING, BUT WE WON'T GO THERE.

BUT OF COURSE, THIS STORY REFERENCES THE PORT OF CINCINNATI AND ITS INITIATIVE IN PRICE HILL, A NEIGHBORHOOD VERY CLOSE TO MY HEART.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, KATHRYNE, WHAT IS YOUR HOPE FOR WHAT COMES NEXT AND HOW PRICE HILL RESIDENTS OR ANY OTHER CINCINNATIANS WANTING TO MOVE INTO PRICE HILL, HOW MIGHT THEY BENEFIT?

WHAT'S YOUR HOPE FOR THIS?

GARDETTE: IT WAS SO FORTUITOUS THAT THAT POPPED UP, THAT ARTICLE, AND WHEN I THINK OF IT, I THINK BACK TO THIS CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD BEFORE WE WERE GOING ON CAMERA ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS.

SO EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD IN CINCINNATI IS LIKE ITS OWN MINI CITY WITH ITS OWN UNDERSTANDING OF RELATIONSHIPS.

AND WHAT I HOPE HAPPENS IN PRICE HILL IS THAT THE RESIDENTS THERE, BECAUSE THERE'S LOW HOMEOWNERSHIP IN PRICE HILL.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT PRICE HILL WILL IS DOING, SOME OF THEIR INNOVATIVE PRODUCTS THAT THEY'RE DOING WITH HOMEOWNERSHIP, THAT THOSE 200 HOMES FALL OVER THAT.

SO WE TRULY HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKERS THAT ARE WORKING IN THIS CITY CAN ACTUALLY HAVE A WAY TO BEGIN GENERATIONAL WEALTH.

BECAUSE WE KNOW HOMEOWNERSHIP IS A WAY THAT WE CAN CONTRIBUTE TO GENERATIONAL WEALTH MOVING ON.

AND THAT THAT BEAUTY THAT HAPPENS IN PRICE HILL CAN THEN LOOK AT OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE MANY OUT OF TOWN HOMEOWNERSHIP THAT ARE RENTAL PROPERTIES, THAT IT CREATES A TSUNAMI OF HOME OWNERSHIP, OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING CLASS, WHO WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE ABLE TO OWN A HOME IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

HARRIS: AND I WANT TO ADD TO THAT, BECAUSE I'M A HUGE FAN OF THIS OF THIS PROGRAM.

AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY AND INVESTMENT, RIGHT, THAT IS -- IT'S INTERESTING THAT THEY USED THE PHRASE THWART, BUT I'M GOING TO LEAN INTO THAT.

YES, WE THWART THIS SORT OF ABILITY TO CREATE LOTS OF CAPITAL FOR OUT-OF-TOWN INVESTORS THAT ARE NOT COMMITTED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF NEIGHBORHOODS IN OUR CITY, TO INCREASING HOMEOWNERSHIP RATES BECAUSE INCREASING HOMEOWNERSHIP RATES IN OUR CITY, IT'S ACTUALLY TO THE DETRIMENT TO THEIR BOTTOM LINE.

SO WE DO WANT TO THWART THAT BECAUSE WE'RE CENTERING OUR RESIDENTS.

AND PART OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN OUR HOUSING CRISIS IS A LOW SUPPLY.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A -- I'M TALKING WITH CHRIS WETTERICH AT THE BUSINESS COURIER.

AND, YOU KNOW, HE'S DOING A STORY ON THIS AND YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LOOK IN THE NEWS, LIKE, SOMETHING LIKE OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS OR SO, 5 OR 10 YEARS, 5,000 HOMES HAVE BEEN PURCHASED BY OUT-OF-TOWN INVESTORS THAT ARE RENTING THEM AT VERY HIGH COST.

THEN, YOU KNOW, SO YOU'RE TAKING SUPPLY OFF THE MARKET.

AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT EQUITY IN CITIES, EQUITY IN CITIES SOMETIMES IS ABOUT SORT OF THWARTING OUT OF TOWN INVESTORS IN OUR COMMUNITIES BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHAT'S BENEFICIAL.

SO I MEAN, THAT HEADLINE IS A LITTLE SENSATIONAL, AND YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOOD WITH THE FRAMING, BUT I AM FINE WITH THE FRAMING BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE DOING IS THAT WE'VE NOW BEEN ABLE TO RETURN 200 HOMES.

AND YOU KNOW, THE PILLAR OF THE PLAN IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RESIDENTS OF PRICE HILL WHO ARE FIRST TIME HOMEOWNERS HAVE PRIORITY ACCESS AND THAT THESE ARE SORT OF STARTER HOMES AND THAT YOU CONTINUE TO BUILD THAT.

SO I THINK THAT THAT IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF EQUITABLE DEVELOPMENT.

BILAL: YEAH.

SO ROBERT, YOU BRING SOME REALLY STRONG IDEAS TO YOUR DEVELOPMENT WORK.

AND ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS, SOME INTERVIEWS AND ALSO OUR PRE-DISCUSSION, YOU TALK ABOUT SEVERAL CONCEPTS.

AND THAT IS THE RIGHT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT AND FINDING THE RIGHT TENANCY, ESPECIALLY AS IT RELATES TO DEVELOPING IN HISTORICALLY MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES.

CAN YOU SAY MORE ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS?

SANDERS: SURE.

YOU KNOW, SO I'll JUST GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

AND ACTUALLY, I HAD THE BENEFIT OF WORKING WITH KATHRYNE ON THIS DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE I HAD TO GO BEFORE COMMUNITY COUNCIL AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT I THINK IT GOES BACK TO, AGAIN, HAVING A PULSE BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY NEED A DEVELOPMENT, HAVING A PULSE ON ALL THE DIFFERENT VARIOUS COMMUNITIES IN THE CITY, SPECIFICALLY TO URBAN CORE AND UNDERSTANDING KIND OF WHERE THE GAPS ARE.

AND SO IT'S NO SECRET I USED TO WORK AT THE PORT AUTHORITY.

AND WHEN I WAS AT THE PORT AUTHORITY, WE WERE PART OF THE FINANCING ON THE BUSINESS DISTRICT WORK THAT WENT ON IN WALNUT HILLS.

AND SO I HAD THAT IN THE BACK OF MY MIND, TOO.

AND SO THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A VACANT BLIGHTED BUILDING IN WALNUT HILLS THAT WAS JUST SITTING VACANT.

IT'S BEEN VACANT SINCE 2013.

AND THERE'S ALL THIS DEVELOPMENT IN WALNUT HILLS, PEOPLE ARE JUST WALKING BY IT AND NOTHING HAPPENING.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A STORAGE USER TAKE THIS BUILDING OR I COULD TRY TO BRING JOBS, YOU KNOW, TO THE BUILDING AND ACTIVATE THE SITE.

IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, IF I WENT WITH A STORAGE USER THE SITE IS PRETTY MUCH STILL SITTING VACANT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO JUST DRIVE IN AND DRIVE OUT, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY, IN MY OPINION, AS MUCH AS BRINGING JOBS TO THAT COMMUNITY.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE WENT DOWN THE PATH OF, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO CONVINCE TRIVERSITY TO RELOCATE THEIR HEADQUARTERS TO WALNUT HILLS.

TRIVERSITY DROVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD, DID THEIR OWN RECONNAISSANCE AND REALLY GOT A FEEL FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND YOU KNOW, FROM A DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S TWO THINGS.

ONE, I'VE GOT TO ASK MYSELF, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN I, GOING BACK TO MY COMMENT EARLIER, YOU KNOW, WHO ALL AM I GOING TO IMPACT IF I DO THIS DEVELOPMENT?

AND, YOU KNOW, ONE, THE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT, YOU KNOW, INVESTED THEIR LIVELIHOODS TO LOCATE TO THIS COMMUNITY, BUT THEN TOO, ADDING FOOT TRAFFIC BY BRINGING JOBS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

THERE'S GOING TO BE MEETINGS WITH ARCHITECTS, THERE'S GOING TO BE MEETINGS WITH SUBCONTRACTORS, THEY'RE GOING TO GO GRAB COFFEE, THEY'RE GOING TO GRAB LUNCH, THEY'RE GOING TO DO HAPPY HOURS AT ESOTERIC BREWERY, YOU KNOW?

AND SO ADDITIONALLY, I'VE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I HAD THE RIGHT TYPE OF END USER THAT IS GOING TO BE INCLUDED AND CONNECTED TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND THAT IS, LIKE, THE MOST CRITICAL PIECE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I COULD GO SLAP A NATIONAL ENTITY THERE AND NOTHING WILL BE -- THEY MIGHT NOT DO ANYTHING FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

BUT I MEAN, YOU GUYS HAVE HEARD OF TRIVERSITY, THEY DO A LOT OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, THEY DO A LOT OF VOLUNTEERISM, THEY DO A LOT OF, I THINK THEY DO REENTRY, THEY DO ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

AND THEN THEY'VE ALREADY MADE CONNECTIONS IN WALNUT HILLS WITH OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TO TRY TO MAKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD THRIVE.

AND SO WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE RIGHT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, IT'S ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

IT'S MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY.

HONESTLY, IF YOU START WITH THE COMMUNITY, YOU REALLY CAN'T GO WRONG.

I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT'S ABOUT.

IF YOU LITERALLY START WITH, ALL RIGHT, THE COMMUNITY, WHAT'S NEEDED, WHO DO I NEED TO TALK TO?

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BRING A BAD DEVELOPMENT DEAL BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY IS GOING TO SAY, "WE DON'T WANT THAT."

I WANT THEM TO TELL ME, "NO, I DON'T WANT A STORAGE FACILITY."

BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT?

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, WHAT DO YOU WANT?

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, IT'S MY JOB TO PROBLEM SOLVE.

SO IF YOU WANT THIS, IT'S MY JOB TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM, SO I'M GOING TO GET YOU THIS.

NOW I MAY GET YOU 80% OF THAT, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY NOT ZERO OF WHAT YOU WANTED.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THAT.

BILAL: YOU KNOW WHAT I LOVE SO MUCH ABOUT THAT, IT FLIES IN COMPLETE OPPOSITION TO THE TYPICAL POSITIONING OF DEVELOPERS.

AND WHAT I LOVE MOST ABOUT IT IS IT EVEN SPEAKS TO YOU'RE LINKING SUCCESS OF YOUR DEVELOPMENT WORK TO AMPLIFY AND COMMUNITY VOICE AND EQUITY.

WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S ANTITHETICAL TO THE TYPICAL APPROACH TO DEVELOPMENT, WHERE SUCCESS IS YOUR BOTTOM LINE: HOW MUCH MONEY DID YOU MAKE?

SO THAT'S NEW, THAT'S DIFFERENT.

HARRIS: AND I WANTED TO ADD TO THAT.

SO, ROBERT, I LOVE WHAT YOU SAID AND I SAY SOMETHING SIMILAR, AND I JUST SORT OF DESCRIBE IT AS AND I TRY TO BE VERY PRECISE IN MY LANGUAGE, REVITALIZATION VERSUS GENTRIFICATION.

RIGHT?

AND SO WHEN WE SAY GENTRIFICATION, GENTRIFICATION IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF NEIGHBORHOODS FOR A PROFIT MOTIVE.

REVITALIZATION IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD BASED ON THE NEIGHBORHOODS IDEA FOR ITSELF.

RIGHT?

AND SO FROM A CITY PERSPECTIVE, AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS, I ALWAYS SORT OF THINK ABOUT MYSELF IN PARTNERSHIP WITH NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND SO DEVELOPMENT IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT BAD.

IT'S HOW NEIGHBORHOODS GROW, BUT THE IDEA SHOULD BE DEVELOPERS SHOULD GO TO COMMUNITIES AND SAY, "HEY, HERE IS WHAT WE DO, WE DO LUXURY HOUSING, WE DO MARKET RATE, WE DO AFFORDABLE, WE DO COMMERCIAL.

ARE THERE PROJECTS IN YOUR COMMUNITY IN WHICH WE CAN PARTNER WITH YOU?"

RIGHT?

VERSUS "WE HAVE A FORMULA TO MAKE X NUMBER OF DOLLARS.

AND THESE ARE THE CONDITIONS IN WHICH WE CAN MAKE X NUMBER OF DOLLARS.

YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD MATCHES THAT.

OKAY, WE'RE JUST GOING TO GO IN."

THAT'S GENTRIFICATION.

REVITALIZATION IS THAT CONVERSATION.

AND SO, AND I THINK THAT I LOVE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THIS, ROBERT, IS THAT THERE ARE MANY DEVELOPERS THAT WANT TO PARTNER WITH THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT JUST -- THE PROJECT IS EASIER.

A PROJECT IS ACTUALLY REALLY FUN, AND I'M SURE YOU'VE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE, KATHRYNE.

IT'S FUN WHEN A COMMUNITY HAS A DESIRE FOR SOMETHING AND THEN THERE'S A DEVELOPER THAT WANTS TO WORK FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THE LEVEL OF INVESTMENT AND PEOPLE WALK BY AND THEY'RE LIKE, "OH, I'M SO EXCITED THIS THING IS COMING."

GARDETTE: I JUST HAVE TO ADD TO WHAT BOTH OF YOU HAVE SAID IN THAT I THINK OF THAT DEVELOPMENT AND HOW ROBERT, AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT PROJECT, WAS ENGAGED WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND YOU MENTIONED ESOTERIC, WHICH BEFORE THEY PUT ONE BRICK ON THE WALL, THEY WERE ATTENDING THE AREA COUNCIL MEETINGS, THEY WERE ATTENDING THE BUSINESS GROUP MEETINGS, AND ACTUALLY HAD INVESTORS, LIKE, THEY TELL YOU, I DON'T KNOW THE PERCENTAGE, BUT THE NUMBER OF RESIDENTS IN WALNUT HILLS THAT ACTUALLY INVESTED IN ESOTERIC SO THAT THEY COULD BE A BUSINESS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

BUT ALSO, YOU SAY ABOUT A PROJECT COMING WITH THE COMMUNITY AND IF YOU GO TO THE CITY WITH THAT, I BELIEVE THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CITY TO REALLY -- WE HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC PROCESS IN WALNUT HILLS OF RECEIVING A LETTER OF SUPPORT.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN, UNFORTUNATELY, TIMES WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT HAS GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS SAID, "NO, THIS PROJECT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD."

AND YET THE CITY GIVES THE DEVELOPER THE ABATEMENT, THE DISCOUNT, WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY WERE ASKING THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR.

THAT CAN CREATE THAT SEPARATION BETWEEN WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE CITY AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

BECAUSE IF CITY, YOU'RE SAYING TO US, "WE WANT YOUR INPUT AND WE GIVE YOU YOUR INPUT AND YOU NEGATE IT, THAT'S NOT A GOOD RELATIONSHIP."

BILAL: SO, SO MUCH OF THE WORK THAT'S HAPPENING NOW AT SOME POINT WILL BE IN THE HANDS OF THE NEXT GENERATION, RIGHT, OF ADVOCATES.

AND SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE ALL TOUCHED ON IN SOME WAY IS THIS CONCEPT OF MENTORSHIP, THIS CONCEPT OF PASSING ON A LEGACY OF OWNERSHIP TO YOUNG PEOPLE.

HOW DO WE ENABLE YOUNG PEOPLE TO STEP INTO THEIR POWER AND SO THAT THEY CAN BE STEWARDS OF EQUITABLE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT?

ROBERT?

SANDERS: ALTHOUGH I'M STRUGGLING A LITTLE BIT DURING COVID BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, CPS DOESN'T LIKE ALLOW VOLUNTEERS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I TALKED ABOUT EXPOSURE BEING, YOU KNOW, THE KEY WORD FOR ME.

AND WHAT CHANGED MY LIFE IS BEING EXPOSED TO THINGS THAT I WEREN'T FAMILIAR WITH.

I VOLUNTEER AS PART OF THIS PROGRAM CALLED WINNERS WALK TALL, WHERE YOU ACTUALLY GO IN AND DO CHARACTER COACHING.

AND ONE OF THE LESSONS THAT WE HAVE IS DREAM BIG.

AND THEN ONE OF THE SAMPLE PROJECTS THAT I HAVE THEM DO IS FIGURE OUT WHO YOU ARE IN THE FUTURE AND DRAW A PICTURE OF IT BECAUSE WE KNOW IF YOU SEE IT, YOU CAN ACHIEVE IT, RIGHT?

MY WIFE SAYS THAT ALL THE TIME, SHE'S A TEACHER.

AND SO ONE KID, ACTUALLY, HE DREW A PICTURE OF -- I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS CRAYONS AND ALL OF THAT.

BUT I ASKED THEM WHAT IT WAS.

HE WAS LIKE, "THAT'S A HOTEL."

I SAID, "OH, THAT'S INTERESTING," BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HE KNEW WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING.

I SAID, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT HOTEL?"

"OH, I OWN IT."

YOU KNOW, AND IT'S LIKE -- AND THAT WAS SUCH A SMALL, YOU KNOW, WIN FOR ME, BUT WHAT IT TOLD ME WAS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU JUST EXPOSE KIDS TO THINGS THAT MAYBE THEY'RE NOT GETTING, THEY'LL ABSORB IT, THEY'LL ABSORB IT IN A GREAT DEAL.

BUT I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE -- THERE'S A LOT OF FUNDING THAT GOES OUT FOR, LIKE, ALL THESE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK IT TAKES MORE PEOPLE LIKE, YOU KNOW, COUNCILMAN AND MYSELF, YOU KNOW, DEDICATING TIME, YOU KNOW, TO THE YOUTH, BUT IN A MORE INTENTIONAL WAY.

BUT IN A MORE INTENTIONAL WAY AND MAKING SURE OF THAT.

AND THEN ALSO LEVERAGING THE PRIVATE SECTOR, YOU KNOW, TO DO THAT.

I MENTIONED IT EARLIER, YOU KNOW, CINCINNATI'S BECOMING AN INNOVATION CORRIDOR, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE WE DOING TO CONNECT THE UP AND COMING TO THAT?

AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS IN ORDER TO DEVELOP SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY IS IMPACTFUL TO THE YOUTH.

BILAL: SO MUCH OF OUR CONVERSATION, A REALLY, REALLY BIG CONVERSATION HAS HOVERED GENERALLY AROUND THREE DIFFERENT AREAS, THREE DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS, ONE BEING POWER, ANOTHER BEING DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY, AND INFLUENCE.

AND AS WE ALL CONSIDER THESE DYNAMICS, THE QUESTION ARISES FOR ME, WHO REALLY HOLDS THE POWER WHEN IT COMES TO AMPLIFYING VOICE, BUT ALSO DRIVING EQUITABLE CITY BUILDING?

KATHRYNE?

GARDETTE: I SAY, IT'S LIKE WE'VE ALL SAID, IT'S ABOUT RELATIONSHIP.

WHO DO YOU HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH AT THE CITY?

AND I SAY NOT JUST YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS, BUT YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW THE STAFF MEMBERS AT THE CITY OF CINCINNATI FOR THE AREAS THAT YOU HAVE AN INTEREST AND A PASSION IN OR JUST NEED TO KNOW TO MOVE YOUR COMMUNITY FORWARD.

IT'S ALSO ABOUT KNOWING WHO ARE THE PEOPLE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

ULTIMATELY, THE POWER RESIDES WITHIN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO CONTRIBUTE OUR POWER TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR COMMUNITY, THAT OUR CITY IS DEVELOPING IN AN EQUITABLE WAY?

HARRIS: YEAH, I WOULD AGREE WITH KATHRYNE.

IT'S AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC WHERE THE CITY DOES HAVE SORT OF DECISION MAKING POWER THAT CAN, IN SOME AREAS, OVERRULE WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE DECIDED.

BUT BECAUSE YOU ALSO HAVE A BODY OF ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO NEED TO GET ELECTED, THERE'S CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT HAPPEN.

AND SO WHEN NEIGHBORHOODS AND CITIZENS REALLY UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF THEIR ENGAGEMENT, IT CREATES A EVEN MORE EQUITABLE BALANCE AND CHECK OF POWER.

BECAUSE BELIEVE ME, AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE IN COMMUNITIES THAT IF I AM NOT DOING THE THINGS I NEED TO DO AND COMMUNICATING IN WAYS I NEED TO COMMUNICATE, I'M GOING TO HEAR FROM THEM, AND I FRANKLY DON'T WANT TO HEAR FROM THEM WHEN THEY ARE UPSET AT ME.

I UNDERSTAND THAT FEELING A SENSE OF HOPELESSNESS AND POWERLESSNESS, BUT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, AT LEAST CITIZENS, VOTERS, RENTERS, HOMEOWNERS ENGAGE, WHEN YOU'RE ENGAGE, HAVE A LOT OF SWAY OVER DECISIONS THAT HAPPEN IN CITIES AND COMMUNITIES.

SANDERS: I AGREE WITH BOTH.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BEING IN DEVELOPMENT, I CAN TELL YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, I INTERACT WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT DEVELOPERS AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO DEVELOP IN PARTNERSHIP WITH COMMUNITIES.

I THINK THE CHALLENGE THAT HAPPENS IS, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOW UP TO SOME COMMUNITIES AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THERE'S TEN PEOPLE AT THE MEETING, RIGHT, IN A COMMUNITY THAT HAS 2000 PEOPLE.

AND IT'S LIKE WE HAVE A LOT OF POWER TO INFLUENCE DEVELOPMENT AT THE COMMUNITY LEVEL.

AND I THINK WE HAVE TO HOLD OURSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO SHOWING UP TO THE COMMUNITY COUNCIL MEETINGS SO THAT ALL DEVELOPERS AND BUSINESS OWNERS CAN BE BETTER INFORMED ON WHAT CAN BE BENEFICIAL FOR THE COMMUNITY.

BILAL: YEAH.

I WANT TO STICK WITH YOU, ACTUALLY, ROBERT.

WE'RE GOING TO LAND THIS BIG PLANE TODAY.

SANDERS: UT-OH.

BILAL: AND YOU KNOW, AS YOU CONSIDER THE, YOU KNOW, THE BROAD RANGE OF POSSIBILITY THROUGH THE LENS OF EQUITABLE CITY BUILDING, WHAT HOPE DO YOU CARRY AS IT RELATES TO HOW OUR CITY CAN GROW INTO A SPACE OF MORE EQUITABLE DEVELOPMENT?

SANDERS: I'M PRETTY INFORMED WITH RESPECT TO SOME THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY HAPPENING.

SEVERAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT I'VE ALREADY MENTIONED, I FEEL LIKE, ARE DOING SOME REALLY CREATIVE THINGS.

YOU KNOW, I'VE DONE SOME WORK WITH THE PORT ON BEHALF OF CLIENTS.

THEY'VE DONE SOME THINGS THAT I KNOW THEY HAVEN'T DONE BEFORE.

CDF, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT -- I MEAN, CINCINNATI DEVELOPMENT FOUNDATION, I'VE SEEN THEM DO SOME THINGS IN 2021 THAT THEY HAVEN'T DONE BEFORE.

AND THEN, QUITE FRANKLY, I'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITIES STEP UP AND AND TRY TO GET MORE ORGANIZED.

AND SO MY HOPE IS THAT THERE'S A CONSENSUS TO WORK TOGETHER BECAUSE THESE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE TOOLS, THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAS CAPITAL, THE COMMUNITY HAS INPUT.

SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT THEY'LL CONTINUE TO WORK TOGETHER AND DO GREAT WORK.

AND ULI, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A PROGRAM WHERE THEY'RE EDUCATING YOUNG MINORITY DEVELOPERS ON HOW TO DO DEVELOPMENT WORK.

AND SO I SEE THINGS GOING IN THE RIGHT TRAJECTORY AND SO I'M EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

MY HOPE IS THAT THAT WILL CONTINUE, BUT IT'S MORE INTENTIONAL AND MORE UNCOMFORTABLE.

BILAL: SUPER EXCITING.

KATHRYNE.

GARDETTE: MY HOPE IS THAT EVERY RESIDENT OF THIS CITY IS ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS, THAT WE AS A CITY KNOW THAT IT BEGINS WHEN YOU ARE IN KINDERGARTEN AND FIRST GRADE, THAT THE OPPORTUNITIES OF HOW IMPORTANT CIVIC ENGAGEMENT IS IS INSTILLED IN YOU AND YOU HAVE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES SO THAT BY THE TIME THAT YOU BECOME A TEENAGER OR A YOUNG ADULT OR AN ADULT OR EVEN A SENIOR, THAT IF DEVELOPMENT IS ONE OF THOSE PASSIONS, ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU SEE IS IMPORTANT, YOU ALREADY HAVE THE SKILLS TO KNOW HOW TO BE ENGAGED AND BE A CONTRIBUTOR THAT MAKES FOR THAT EQUITABLE DEVELOPMENT.

HARRIS: WE ARE AT A REALLY EXCITING TIME, SO WE STARTED THIS CONVERSATION OFF TALKING ABOUT REDLINING.

AND WE KNOW THAT PART OF SOME OF THE TOOLS THAT CITIES USED TO IMPLEMENT REDLINING WAS THROUGH ZONING PRACTICES THAT MADE CERTAIN TYPES OF HOUSING ILLEGAL BASED ON PEOPLE'S SORT OF SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS.

AND WE HAVE A COMMITTEE, THE EQUITABLE GROWTH AND HOUSING COMMITTEE, WHICH I CHAIR, WHICH WE ARE LOOKING AT HOW DO WE UNDO POLICIES THAT GOVERN HOW CITIES DEVELOPED BASED ON REDLINING?

THAT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

ROBERT MENTIONED CINCINNATI DEVELOPMENT FUND AND OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST, LEVERAGING PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS TO CREATE AS MANY FLEXIBLE DOLLARS TO INVEST IN HOMEOWNERSHIP AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING AT EVERY INCOME LEVEL 0 TO 30 PERCENT, 30 TO 60, 60 TO 80 AND ABOVE.

THINKING ABOUT HELPING CREATE GAP FINANCING FOR PROJECTS THAT ARE RIGHT THERE, BUT JUST NEED THAT EXTRA SPACE.

CONSOLIDATING ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESSES SO THAT INNOVATION DOESN'T GET SQUASHED BECAUSE PAPERWORK TAKES SIX MONTHS, RIGHT?

SO, VALUING PEOPLE OVER PAPERWORK.

AND SO WE ARE POISED AT THIS MOMENT IN OUR CITY WHERE WE ARE GROWING IN POPULATION, WE HAVE NEW LEADERSHIP IN POWER, AND WE'RE HAVING THESE VERY VOCAL CONVERSATIONS AT THE ADMINISTRATIVE LEVEL, AT THE ELECTED LEVEL, AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL ABOUT A DIVERSITY OF PARTICIPATION.

AND SO MY HOPE IS IS THAT WE RECOGNIZE THIS NEED FOR CHANGE AT EACH LEVEL AND WE JUST CONTINUE THE PATH FORWARD TO CREATING A NEW CITY, CREATING AND DOING SOMETHING THAT'S NEW.

DEVELOPING EQUITABLE CITIES IS A NEW IDEA.

WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT IN THIS COUNTRY BEFORE.

SO WE ARE BOTH WE'RE RIDING THE BIKE AS WE BUILD IT AND THAT SOMETIMES IT'S REALLY NECESSARY FOR INNOVATIVE CHANGE.

BILAL: THANKS TO EACH OF YOU.

I'M SITTING HERE, I MEAN, YOU WERE EACH PAINTING SOME VERY VIVID VISIONS, BUT ALSO DEMONSTRATING AND, LIKE, PROVIDING EVIDENCE THAT IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING, RIGHT?

THAT VISION IS BEING MANIFESTED TODAY.

THANKS TO EACH OF YOU, ROBERT SANDERS, KATHRYNE GARDETTE, AND COUNCILMAN HARRIS ONCE MORE FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR INSIGHTS.

SANDERS: THANK YOU.

HARRIS: THANK YOU.

GARDETTE: THANK YOU.

BILAL: TODAY'S CONVERSATION MOVED ACROSS MANY DIMENSIONS OF EQUITABLE CITY BUILDING.

WE TOOK A GLIMPSE INTO THE NOT TOO DISTANT PAST MARKED BY RACIST HOUSING POLICY, AND WE EXAMINE THE PRESENT MANIFESTATIONS OF EXCLUSIONARY PRACTICES AND CONSTRAINTS THAT KEEP THE LEGACY OF HOUSING DISCRIMINATION ALIVE AND CONTINUE TO ISOLATE MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES FROM OPPORTUNITIES.

BUT WE ALSO HEARD FROM OUR GUESTS INSIGHTS INTO EFFECTIVE WAYS TO DISMANTLE THESE SYSTEMS OF INEQUITY BY, ONE, DRAWING A DIRECT LINK BETWEEN SUCCESS AND EQUITY, TWO, CENTERING THE VOICES, ASSETS, AND NEEDS OF COMMUNITIES IN DECISION MAKING, AND THREE, STRUCTURING INNOVATIVE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES IN WAYS THAT BENEFIT HISTORICALLY MARGINALIZED PEOPLE.

INDEED, EQUITABLE CITY BUILDING IS ON THE HORIZON.

IT'S WELL WITHIN OUR REACH.

AND WHEN WE PLACE EQUITY AT THE CENTER, WE ACCELERATE THE PACE OF GROWTH, WE SHAPE A VIBRANT CITY WHERE WE CAN ALL NOT JUST RESIDE, BUT THRIVE.

WE HOPE YOU'RE READY TO DIG DEEPER INTO SOME OF THESE TOPICS.

SO, JUST HEAD TO CETCONNECT.ORG/URBANCONSULATE TO FIND LINKS TO REPORTS, LOCAL INITIATIVES, AS WELL AS A READING LIST TO HELP REFINE YOUR UNDERSTANDING.

AND IF YOU WANT TO ENGAGE IN PERSON OR VIRTUALLY, CHECK OUT URBANCONSULATE.COM/CINCINNATI FOR INFORMATION ABOUT OUR UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, FOR URBAN CONSULATE AND CET, I'M NAIMAH BILAL.

TAKE CARE!

[ MUSIC: SANKOFA (ASE) BY TRIIIBE ] THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS MADE POSSIBLE THANKS TO THE SUPPORT OF: