ANNOUNCER: BRICK BY BRICK IS MADE POSSIBLE THANKS TO LEADING SUPPORT FROM: AND MANY MORE.

WE COULDN'T DO THIS WORK WITHOUT YOU.

THANK YOU.

THOMPSON: WHETHER YOU'RE A HOMEOWNER OR EVEN A RENTER, RISING PROPERTY TAXES IN OHIO HAVE LIKELY HIT YOUR BOTTOM LINE.

MONAHAN: IF THEY KEEP GOING UP, IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE, OKAY, SHOOT, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE.

I'VE GOT TO DOWNSIZE.

I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

THOMPSON: FOR RENTERS, IT MAY TRANSLATE INTO INCREASED RATES.

FOR OWNERS, IT'S A HIGHER TAX BILL TWICE A YEAR.

IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, PROPERTY VALUES HAVE JUMPED DOUBLE DIGITS IN OUR REGION.

SINCE A NUMBER OF TAX LEVIES GROW WITH HOME VALUES, A BIG INCREASE IN APPRAISAL COSTS MEANS MORE IN TAXES.

SEITZ: REAL ESTATE VALUATIONS, PRICE VALUATIONS HAVE GREATLY OUTSTRIPPED THE RATE OF INFLATION FOR ABOUT THE LAST SEVEN YEARS.

THOMPSON: IT'S THE OLDEST FORM OF TAXATION IN OHIO.

THEY PAY FOR EVERY GOVERNMENT SERVICE YOU CAN THINK OF, INCLUDING POLICE, FIRE, INFRASTRUCTURE AND SCHOOLS.

CUTTING PROPERTY TAXES AFFECTS THOSE SERVICES AND THAT'S A CONCERN.

BLEVINS: THIS IS THE FIRST TIME, BASED ON THE CHANGES THAT HAPPENED IN THE STATE FORMULA, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE LOCAL PROPERTY TAX REFORM, THAT WE'RE FACING A DECENT SIZED DEFICIT.

THOMPSON: IN THIS EPISODE, THE PROBLEM OF RISING PROPERTY TAXES, HOW STATE LAWMAKERS ARE RESPONDING AND HOW LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE WORKING TO OFFER RELIEF BUT HAVE THEIR HANDS TIED.

DIXON: WE CAN RUN NINE MONTHS WITHOUT ANY FUNDING FROM ANYBODY.

THOMPSON: AND ARE PROPERTY TAXES EQUITABLE?

WE SPEAK TO A RESEARCHER ABOUT THE DISPARITIES IN THE SYSTEM.

PLUS, A LOOK AT THE EFFORT TO ABOLISH PROPERTY TAXES ALTOGETHER.

LET'S GET INTO IT.

THIS IS BRICK BY BRICK: SOLUTIONS FOR A THRIVING COMMUNITY.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO BRICK BY BRICK, WHERE WE'RE HIGHLIGHTING SOLUTIONS FOR A THRIVING COMMUNITY IN SOUTHWEST OHIO.

I'M YOUR HOST, ANN THOMPSON.

TODAY WE'RE LOOKING AT RISING PROPERTY TAXES, WHICH CAN BE A BIT COMPLICATED, BUT WE'VE GOT THE TEAM HERE TO HELP PUT IT INTO TERMS WE CAN ALL UNDERSTAND.

MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST EMIKO MOORE AND HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR.

THANKS FOR HELPING US OUT.

LAGUERRE: NO PROBLEM.

MOORE: GOOD TO BE HERE.

THOMPSON: SO, EMIKO, WHAT HAVE WE BEEN HEARING FROM OUR NEIGHBORS ON THIS ONE?

MOORE: WELL, THEY GENERALLY WANT SOME KIND OF RELIEF.

AS WE KNOW, HOUSING PRICES HAVE SOARED OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS, AS WELL AS COUNTY APPRAISALS, WHICH IS WHAT PROPERTY TAXES ARE BASED UPON.

AND HOMEOWNERS RECOGNIZE THAT TAXES PAY FOR SERVICES THAT ARE GOOD.

BUT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF NEIGHBORS THAT ARE ON FIXED INCOME, RETIRED, HAVE LOST A JOB, OR THEY JUST DON'T HAVE AN EXTRA SAVINGS TO COVER THESE HIGHER TAXES.

SO THEY'RE STILL LOOKING FOR BROADER SOLUTIONS FROM OUR COUNTY AND STATE LEADERS.

THOMPSON: AND YOU MENTIONED STATE LEADERS, AND THEY'RE PASSING SOME LEGISLATION IN COLUMBUS.

IN TERMS OF LOCAL LEADERS, THEY HAVE THEIR HANDS TIED A LITTLE BIT, BUT THEY ARE TRYING SOME LIMITED ACTIONS.

MOORE: SOME DEFINITELY ARE, AND THEY'RE PUSHING HARD FOR TAX REFORM.

AS YOU'LL SEE IN OUR STORY, WE WENT TO VISIT BUTLER COUNTY, WHERE THEY'RE OUT FRONT WITH THEIR EFFORTS TO PROVIDE HOMEOWNERS WITH TAX RELIEF.

LAGUERRE: AND PEOPLE DEFINITELY NEED THAT TAX RELIEF BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SO BURDENED THAT THERE'S A GROUP THAT'S TRYING TO ELIMINATE PROPERTY TAXES ALTOGETHER, WHICH IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE, BECAUSE YOU STILL GOT TO PAY FOR POLICE DEPARTMENTS, FIRE DEPARTMENTS, PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND THE LIST GOES ON.

SO YEAH, LIKE THE OLD SAYING GOES, YOU CAN'T JUST ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL, RIGHT?

IF WE WERE TO ELIMINATE PROPERTY TAXES, THAT WOULD REQUIRE A COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF OHIO'S TAXES.

WHICH IS NOT THAT SIMPLE.

THOMPSON: NO, IT'S NOT.

AND HERNZ, YOU'VE BEEN LOOKING INTO APPRAISALS AS IT RELATES TO A HISTORY OF DISCRIMINATION.

LAGUERRE: YEAH, I SPOKE TO DR.

JUNIA HOWELL, AND SHE PRETTY MUCH TOLD ME ABOUT THE LACK OF EQUITY IN APPRAISALS AND HOW THAT CORRELATES TO PROPERTY TAXES.

SHE ALSO HAS SOLUTIONS ON HOW TO MAKE THE SYSTEM MORE FAIR.

THOMPSON: WELL, THANKS FOR THE PREVIEW.

WE'LL SEE YOU BOTH IN A BIT.

LAGUERRE: SOUNDS GOOD.

THOMPSON: WELL, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS YEAR MANY WILL SEE THEIR NEXT ROUND OF PROPERTY APPRAISALS.

TRANSLATED: YOUR TAXES WILL LIKELY GO UP IN 2027 AFTER THE ADJUSTMENT.

COUNTIES DO THEM EVERY THREE YEARS BECAUSE THE PROPERTY TAX IS THE LARGEST SOURCE OF REVENUE RAISED BY LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

IN OHIO, IT AMOUNTS TO 65%.

AND THE THING ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES IS IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH YOU MAKE OR YOUR ABILITY TO PAY, YOU STILL OWE WHAT YOUR HOME IS WORTH.

NATIONWIDE, THE POOREST 20% OF TAXPAYERS PAY 4.2% OF THEIR INCOME IN PROPERTY TAXES.

IT'S 1.7% FOR THE WEALTHIEST HOUSEHOLDS.

ADAM LANGLEY IS THE ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF TAX POLICY AT THE LINCOLN INSTITUTE OF LAND POLICY.

LINCOLN RELEASED A STUDY ON PROPERTY TAXES LAST YEAR AND, AMONG OTHER THINGS, FOUND GREAT DISPARITIES EVEN IN COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO DO RIGHT BY HOMEOWNERS OVER TIME.

LANGLEY: ONE OF THE MOST STRIKING FINDINGS IN THE 50 STATE PROPERTY TAX COMPARISON STUDY IS THE SIZE OF INEQUITIES CREATED BY PROPERTY TAX ASSESSMENT LIMITS, SUCH AS CALIFORNIA'S PROPOSITION 13.

SO OVER TIME, THESE ASSESSMENT LIMITS CREATE REALLY LARGE DISPARITIES IN PROPERTY TAX BILLS FOR OWNERS OF NEARLY IDENTICAL HOMES BASED ON HOW MUCH HAS THEIR HOME APPRECIATED AND HOW LONG HAVE THEY OWNED IT.

THOMPSON: AND DON'T EXPECT PROPERTY TAX RELIEF ANYTIME SOON.

AS STATE AND FEDERAL AID DRIES UP, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WILL BE LOOKING FOR EVEN MORE.

LANGLEY: THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SIGNIFICANTLY SCALING BACK SUPPORT FOR STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT, CUTTING MEDICAID AND OTHER SORTS OF POLICY CHANGES, WHICH ARE GOING TO MEAN THAT STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE A HOLE IN THEIR BUDGET THAT THEY NEED TO FILL.

THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY NEED TO RAISE TAXES.

THOMPSON: IN 2022, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN OHIO COLLECTED A RECORD HIGH IN PROPERTY TAXES, 19.5 BILLION.

IT WAS TIED TO HUGE INCREASES IN PROPERTY VALUES FOR 2023-2024.

HAMILTON COUNTY, UP 28%; MONTGOMERY COUNTY, 34%; BUTLER COUNTY, 37%; CLERMONT COUNTY, UP 39%, AND THE LIST GOES ON.

RENTERS ARE ALSO BEING IMPACTED.

COLUMBUS IS ONE OF ONLY 15 CITIES IN THE LINCOLN STUDY THAT IMPOSES A HIGHER STATUTORY TAX RATE ON APARTMENTS THAN HOMESTEADS.

LANGLEY: YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT COMPLETELY CLEAR, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE EVIDENCE SUGGESTS THAT MOST OF THOSE PROPERTY TAXES IMPOSED ON APARTMENT BUILDINGS ARE PUSHED THROUGH TO TENANTS IN THE FORM OF HIGHER RENT.

THOMPSON: LANGLEY SAYS GIVEN THAT THE AVERAGE RENTER HAS A LOWER INCOME THAN HOMEOWNERS, STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS SHOULD REALLY THINK TWICE ABOUT SHIFTING THE TAX BURDEN ONTO APARTMENT BUILDINGS.

NOW, BEFORE WE JUMP INTO A FEW BILLS THAT LAWMAKERS ARE HOPING WILL ADDRESS THINGS, A QUICK 101, JUST IN CASE YOU'RE LIKE US AND PROPERTY TAXES ARE A BIT CONFUSING.

PROPERTY IN OHIO IS ASSESSED BY THE COUNTY AUDITOR'S OFFICE, EITHER IN PERSON OR VIA A CALCULATED ADJUSTMENT.

THIS IS MANDATED BY THE STATE, SINCE THE TAXES PAY FOR SO MANY IMPORTANT SERVICES AND VALUATIONS CAN CHANGE QUICKLY.

THEY ESTABLISH A MARKET VALUE BASED ON THE LAND AND BUILDINGS, AND THEN CALCULATE A BASE TAX RATE BASED ON 35% OF MARKET VALUE.

THEN THEY ADD ADDITIONAL MILLAGE BASED ON SERVICES OR LEVIES THAT THE PUBLIC HAS VOTED TO SUPPORT OVER TIME, WHICH CAN INCLUDE SCHOOLS, MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, EVEN SUPPORTING A LOCAL ZOO.

YOU CAN FIND THE EXACT BREAKDOWN OF YOUR PROPERTY TAXES BY VISITING YOUR AUDITOR'S WEBSITE.

THEY ALSO WILL HAVE EASY TO UNDERSTAND RESOURCES TO FURTHER EXPLAIN THE PROCESS, WHICH WE'LL LINK TO ON THIS WEB STORY.

OKAY, BACK TO THE POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

RECOGNIZING PROPERTY TAXES CONTINUE TO CLIMB, OHIO LAWMAKERS PASSED A HANDFUL OF BILLS LAST FALL, WHICH WOULD CUT MORE THAN $2 BILLION OVER THREE YEARS.

AT THE TIME OF THIS TAPING, THE LEGISLATION IS AWAITING GOVERNOR DEWINE'S SIGNATURE.

ASSUMING HE SIGNS IT, THE JOURNAL NEWS ESTIMATED THAT THE OWNER OF A $100,000 HOME IN BUTLER COUNTY WOULD SAVE ABOUT $213 A YEAR UNDER THE CHANGE.

THAT SAME OWNER IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY MIGHT SAVE AROUND $277.

THESE ARE JUST A FEW EXAMPLES, THOUGH, AND EVERY COUNTY OR TOWNSHIP WILL LIKELY HAVE A DIFFERENT AMOUNT OF SAVINGS.

THE LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED INCLUDED SOME IDEAS FROM THE GOVERNOR'S PROPERTY TAX WORKING GROUP, OF WHICH FORMER LAWMAKER BILL SEITZ WAS CO-CHAIR.

SEITZ SAYS THE MOST MEANINGFUL OF THE GROUP'S 21 RECOMMENDATIONS THAT APPLY TO BOTH SCHOOL REVENUES AND INSIDE MILLAGE IS SEITZ: INSTEAD OF ALLOWING SOME LEVIES TO RISE IN LOCKSTEP WITH INCREASING PROPERTY VALUATIONS, WE ARE INSTEAD GOING TO CAP THAT RATE OF INCREASE AT NO MORE THAN THE RATE OF INFLATION.

THAT GIVES THESE DISTRICTS SOME INFLATIONARY GROWTH IN THEIR REVENUE STREAM, MAKES SENSE, BUT IT DOESN'T GIVE THEM THE WINDFALL THAT THEY'VE ENJOYED BECAUSE OF THIS VAST INCREASE IN PROPERTY VALUATIONS.

THOMPSON: BUT IN THE CASE OF HOUSE BILL 186, SEITZ SAYS LAWMAKERS WRONGLY WANT TO APPLY IT RETROACTIVELY, FORCING THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO GIVE BACK LAWFULLY COLLECTED MONIES IN 2023 AND 2024.

SEITZ: WE COULD NOT HAVE FORESEEN THIS CHICANERY THAT WAS PULLED AT THE LAST MINUTE, WHICH RESULTS IN THE RETROACTIVE APPLICATION OF THAT NEW PRINCIPLE, AND THAT'S UNFAIR.

THOMPSON: AND IN ANOTHER CASE, THE COMMITTEE WANTED COUNTY BUDGET COMMISSIONS TO BE PROHIBITED FROM REDUCING THE AMOUNT FOR ANY LEVY FOR FIVE YEARS BECAUSE TO CHANGE IT WOULD BE UNDEMOCRATIC.

IN HOUSE BILL 309, LAWMAKERS CHANGED IT TO ONLY ONE YEAR, GIVING COUNTIES MORE POWER TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS SOONER.

SEITZ'S COMMITTEE DID LOOK AT WAYS TO REDUCE PROPERTY TAXES FOR THE ELDERLY ON A FIXED INCOME.

BUT HE SAYS STATE LAWMAKERS WEREN'T INTERESTED IN INCREASING THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION OR CREATING A TAX DEFERRAL.

THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION EXEMPTS A PORTION OF THE HOME'S MARKET VALUE FROM TAXATION.

SOME COUNTIES ARE GETTING FRUSTRATED ABOUT A LACK OF PROGRESS AT THE STATE LEVEL, INCLUDING BUTLER COUNTY.

COMMISSIONERS SAY THEY'VE BEEN LOOKING OUT FOR PEOPLE ON A FIXED INCOME FOR YEARS.

BRICK BY BRICK'S EMIKO MOORE TRIED TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TRYING AND IF IT'S WORKING.

MOORE: OVER TEN YEARS AGO, 70 YEAR OLD CAROL MONAHAN RETIRED FROM PROCTER AND GAMBLE AND ENJOYS HER LAKEFRONT HOME AND TIGHT KNIT COMMUNITY IN FAIRFIELD.

MONAHAN: THE ONLY REASON WHY I BUILT THIS HOME WAS BECAUSE I COULD BUILD ON THE LAKE.

AND I LOVE THE VIEW AND THE NEIGHBORS HERE.

I WAS THE 10TH ONE TO MOVE IN.

I WAS THE 10TH HOMEOWNER TO BUILD HERE, AND THE NEIGHBORS HAVE MOVED IN AND EVERYBODY'S GREAT.

MOORE: BUT WHEN RESIDENTS OF BUTLER COUNTY SAW THE SPIKE IN THEIR 2023 PROPERTY TAXES, MANY BEGAN TO QUESTION THEIR ABILITY TO STAY IN THEIR HOMES AND WROTE LETTERS TO THE COUNTY, INCLUDING MONAHAN.

MONAHAN: DEAR BUTLER COUNTY TREASURER, IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY THAT US OLDER PEOPLE, 70 AND OVER, CAN GET A BREAK ON THESE TAXES?

I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO SELL MY HOUSE THAT I LOVE AND MOVE SOMEWHERE LESS DESIRABLE.

MOORE: THE IMPACT OF COVID-19 AND THE SHORTAGE OF HOUSING HELPED CREATE A PERFECT STORM THAT BUTLER COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SAW COMING.

DON DIXON IS PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS WITH OVER 30 YEARS EXPERIENCE.

DIXON: I WENT THROUGH AN EARLIER BOUT WITH THIS WITH THE STATE TAX COMMISSIONER IN LATE 2007, 2008, AND THAT'S WHEN WE WERE HAVING A LOT OF FORECLOSURES AND INTEREST RATES WERE BOUNCING ALL AROUND, BUT FORECLOSURES WERE THROUGH THE ROOF.

MOORE: BUTLER COUNTY IS IN AN EARLIER PHASE IN OHIO TO GET THEIR PROPERTY REASSESSMENTS, WHICH OCCUR EVERY THREE YEARS, AND WAS SEEING OVER 30% INCREASES BEFORE OTHER COUNTIES AND BEGAN SOUNDING THE ALARM BELLS.

DIXON: YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN'T TAKE A 35% REAL ESTATE INCREASE IN ANY KIND OF BUSINESS AND NOT DAMAGE THE BUSINESS, OR PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS OR GET A LOT OF PEOPLE LAID OFF.

MOORE: THE COMMISSIONERS CALLED FOR A SUMMIT TOGETHER WITH LAWMAKERS, BUT IT DIDN'T LEAD TO ANY NEW LEGISLATION.

DIXON: SO WE BATTLED THROUGH IT.

AND A COUPLE, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE TRIPS TO COLUMBUS, HOURS ON THE PHONE WITH OUR LEGISLATORS AND DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS TRYING TO GET SOME CONSOLIDATION OF A GROUP TO BE ABLE TO GET EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION.

AND THEN WHEN I TESTIFIED IN COLUMBUS A COUPLE OF TIMES, I SAID, "LOOK, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU GUYS SOMETHING.

YOU DON'T SEEM TO TAKE THIS SERIOUS, BUT ONE DAY, IF YOU DON'T FIX THIS, THEY WILL FIX IT."

MOORE: AFTER LEGISLATIVE EFFORTS STALLED, THE COMMISSIONERS IN BUTLER COUNTY TOOK THE REINS.

THIS PAST FALL THEY GAVE UNPRECEDENTED TAX BREAKS PAYABLE IN 2026, A ONE YEAR 12.5 MILLION TAX ROLLBACK, AS WELL AS DOUBLE THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION FOR THE 19,000 ELIGIBLE SENIORS AND DISABLED HOMEOWNERS.

DIXON: WE HAVE WORKED VERY HARD TO BE ABLE TO ACCUMULATE ENOUGH CASH THAT WE CAN RUN NINE MONTHS WITHOUT ANY FUNDING FROM ANYBODY.

WE CAN RUN NINE MONTHS, WE HAVE THAT MUCH CARRYOVER.

MOORE: FOR OTHER COUNTIES, DOUBLING THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTIONS WOULD NOT WORK.

CARL KEITH IS THE AUDITOR FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

KEITH: WE'VE GOT 88 COUNTIES IN OHIO, AND I THINK ONLY NINE HAVE CHOSEN TO GO THAT ROUTE.

SO IT'S NOT BEEN A, YOU KNOW, WIDELY ADDRESSED.

VOTERS VOTED TO SPEND THOSE DOLLARS ON SCHOOLS OR ON PARKS OR THE LIBRARY.

THEY DIDN'T VOTE TO SPEND THOSE MONIES GIVING SOMEONE A TAX BREAK.

AND SO I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT INAPPROPRIATE.

AND AGAIN, AGAIN, DIFFERENT COUNTIES, IT'S A BIGGER BURDEN THAN OTHERS.

MOORE: BUT DIXON ADMITS THIS ISN'T A ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION AND THAT REAL CHANGE IN LEGISLATION NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

DIXON: LOOK, THAT'S A BAND-AID.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A BAND-AID.

BUT WE CAN ONLY DO THAT SO LONG, ONLY BECAUSE WE'VE GOT AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM THAT THROWS OFF ENOUGH RETURNS AS FAR AS SALES TAX AND REAL ESTATE TAXES THAT WE CAN AFFORD TO DO THAT.

A LOT OF THESE COUNTIES ARE GOING DAY TO DAY.

IT'S NOT A FIX ALL FOREVER.

IT NEEDS TO BE -- THE WHOLE THING NEEDS TO BE RECONSIDERED AND REWORKED.

MONAHAN: PLACES SHOULD LOOK AT MAYBE FIGURING OUT WAYS TO CUT BUDGET SO THAT IT'S NOT ALWAYS FALLING ON THE HOMEOWNERS.

YOU KNOW WHAT?

WHEN I BUILD IT, I WASN'T PAYING THESE HIGH TAXES, BUT IT JUST KEEPS CONTINUING ON AND ON.

AND NOT JUST FOR ME, I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE RETIRED AND PEOPLE HAVE HAD TO SELL THEIR HOMES AND MOVE, DOWNSIZE AND THINGS.

I LOVE MY HOUSE, AND I DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THE HASSLE OF HAVING TO MOVE AGAIN.

MOORE: FOR BRICK BY BRICK, I'M EMIKO MOORE.

THOMPSON: REGARDING THE EFFORT TO USE THIS STRATEGY IN HAMILTON COUNTY, OFFICIALS WE SPOKE WITH SAY THAT IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE, SO THEY DIDN'T MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.

ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND, AS WE'VE BEEN SAYING, IS THAT LOWERING PROPERTY TAXES TAKES MONEY AWAY FROM SCHOOLS.

DISTRICTS DEPEND ON LEVY REVENUE AND ARE HAVING TO CHANGE THEIR BUDGETS BASED ON ACTIONS IN COLUMBUS.

THE RECENT PROPERTY TAX LEGISLATION AND OTHER FUNDING DECISIONS ARE JUST THE LATEST CHALLENGES FOR HAMILTON CITY SCHOOLS AND OTHERS.

HAMILTON IS THE 18TH LARGEST SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE STATE, WITH AN ANNUAL BUDGET OF $124 MILLION.

OVER THE YEARS, IT'S MANAGED ITS MONEY WELL.

THE LAST LEVY REQUEST WAS IN 1993.

BUT WITH FUNDING CUTS AT THE STATE LEVEL, HAMILTON IS FACING A DEFICIT.

SUPERINTENDENT ANDREA BLEVINS IS LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS.

BLEVINS: MY TREASURER AND I MEET REGULARLY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE THE LATEST TRENDS THAT WE'RE SEEING IN OUR BUDGET, TO MAKE SURE WE AREN'T OVERSPENDING, TO MAKE SURE WE'RE BEING RESPONSIVE TO THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING BOTH AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.

THOMPSON: FOR EXAMPLE, POSTING REPORT CARDS ELECTRONICALLY INSTEAD OF MAILING THEM WILL SAVE $100,000 A YEAR.

BLEVINS IS LOOKING FOR OTHER IDEAS AND HELD A SERIES OF FORUMS THIS FALL EXPLAINING HAMILTON GETS 75% OF ITS FUNDING FROM THE STATE AND 20% FROM LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES, WHICH IS THE LOWEST LEGAL LIMIT SHE SAYS YOU CAN TAX YOUR COMMUNITY.

BLEVINS: WE WANT TO BE ON TOP OF THIS.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A PLAN THAT WE CLEARLY COMMUNICATE TO OUR STAFF AND TO OUR COMMUNITY, AND IT'S ALSO RESPONSIVE OF WHAT THE NEEDS ARE, NOT JUST WHAT WE THINK, BUT WHAT YOU THINK, WHAT THE DATA TELLS US, WHAT THE RESULTS SHOW US SO THAT WE CAN BE THE BEST DISTRICT WE CAN EACH AND EVERY DAY.

THOMPSON: TREASURER JEREMY FRAZIER'S DATA SHOWS A DEFICIT RANGING FROM 4.7 MILLION TO 19.7 MILLION FROM FISCAL YEAR 2026 TO 2029 IF NO CHANGES ARE MADE.

CUTS TO THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA PROMPTED ALL 12 BUTLER COUNTY DISTRICTS TO DRAFT A LETTER CALLING FOR REFORM.

SPRAGUE: IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT CONTACTING THE STATE, PLEASE DO, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT, I DON'T THINK YOU SAID IT IN THIS ONE.

WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THOSE ARE STATE DOLLARS.

THOSE AREN'T STATE DOLLARS.

THOSE ARE YOUR DOLLARS.

THOMPSON: BASED ON THE TREASURY'S PROJECTIONS, THE DISTRICT IS FINALIZING A SPENDING PLAN, WHICH THE BOARD WILL VOTE ON.

BECAUSE OF CUTS TO THE FAIR SCHOOL FUNDING PLAN, BLEVINS SAYS IT'S THE FIRST TIME EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE COUNTY IS EXPERIENCING FINANCIAL DISTRESS.

SHE SAYS WE HAVE TO PRESERVE FREE EDUCATION.

BLEVINS: I BELIEVE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL IS THE AMERICAN DREAM.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU COME FROM, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOUR PARENTS HAVE WEALTH OR NOT, PUBLIC SCHOOLS SHOULD BE THE PLACE WHERE ALL KIDS CAN COME, SEE THEMSELVES, AND HAVE A SENSE OF BELONGING, BUT ALSO BE ABLE TO FOLLOW THEIR PASSION.

THOMPSON: THIS IS AN EVOLVING SITUATION FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND THE STATE, AS YOU CAN TELL.

WE'LL CONTINUE FOLLOWING IT AND BRING YOU UPDATES ON THE BRICK BY BRICK WEB PAGE, OUR REGULAR PODCAST OR THIS PROGRAM.

SHIFTING GEARS NOW TO A TAX SOLUTION BEING UTILIZED IN SOME FORM BY 29 OTHER STATES AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.

IT'S A TOOL TO PREVENT PROPERTY TAX OVERLOAD, AND IT'S CALLED A CIRCUIT BREAKER.

OHIO DOESN'T HAVE IT, BUT CO-CHAIR OF THE PROPERTY TAX WORKING GROUP, BILL SEITZ, TRIED TO PUSH FOR IT.

SEITZ: AND HERE'S HOW IT WORKS.

WHENEVER YOUR PROPERTY TAXES EXCEED A SPECIFIED PERCENTAGE OF YOUR INCOME, ALL OR A PORTION OF THAT INCREASE YOU DON'T PAY, THE STATE WILL PAY THE DIFFERENCE.

THOMPSON: SOUNDS STRAIGHTFORWARD, BUT SIETZ SAYS OHIO LAWMAKERS WEREN'T INTERESTED.

THE CIRCUIT BREAKER WAS ALSO PART OF ADAM LANGLEY'S RECOMMENDATION.

HE WROTE ANOTHER REPORT FOR LINCOLN INSTITUTE OF LAND POLICY CALLED PROPERTY TAX RELIEF FOR HOMEOWNERS.

LANGLEY: IT'S SPECIFICALLY TARGETED AT PEOPLE WHOSE PROPERTY TAX BURDENS ARE HEAVIEST.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ON FIXED INCOMES, PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR JOBS, MODERATE INCOME HOMEOWNERS WHO HAPPEN TO LIVE IN, YOU KNOW, HOT, GENTRIFYING NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE VALUES ARE GOING UP A LOT.

THOMPSON: GO TO OUR WEBSITE AT THINKTV.ORG OR CETCONNECT.ORG TO SEE HOW CIRCUIT BREAKERS MEANINGFULLY IMPROVE PROPERTY TAX FAIRNESS.

A MAP OF CIRCUIT BREAKERS SHOWS PRIMARILY BLUE STATES.

SO WHAT ABOUT GETTING RID OF PROPERTY TAXES ALTOGETHER?

FLORIDA IS THINKING ABOUT IT AND NEEDS 60% VOTER APPROVAL.

GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS SAYS IT'S DOABLE BECAUSE IT'S ONLY FOR PERMANENT RESIDENTS, AND THEY MAKE UP JUST 30% OF THE STATE.

FLORIDA PROPERTY TAXES WOULD STILL APPLY TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE SECOND HOMES, INVESTMENT PROPERTIES AND RENTALS IN THE STATE.

THE SITUATION IS NOT THE SAME IN OHIO, WHERE IT'S UNCLEAR HOW THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT PROPERTY TAXES MAKE UP WOULD BE REPLACED.

IT'S 65% OF THE BUDGET.

HERE'S THE IDEA FROM BRIAN MASSIE, WHO LEADS THE COMMITTEE TO ABOLISH PROPERTY TAXES.

MASSIE: WE FIRST STARTED OUT WITH SOS.

SOS, SAVE OUR SENIORS.

WE THOUGHT WE COULD GET, WE COULD CONVINCE THE STATE LEGISLATORS TO ABOLISH OHIO PROPERTY TAXES FOR SENIORS WHEN THEY HIT 65.

THAT WAS QUICKLY SHUT DOWN.

THAT'S WHEN WE SAID, AND THE EXPRESSION WE USE, WE'VE GOT TO STARVE THE BEAST.

WE'VE GOT TO ACTUALLY ABOLISH THE PROPERTY TAXES.

THOMPSON: MASSIE SAYS HE'S TRYING TO GET ENOUGH SIGNATURES TO PUT THE MEASURE ON THE STATEWIDE BALLOT THIS FALL.

HE'S STILL WORKING THROUGH HOW THE STATE WOULD MAKE UP FOR THE LOST MONEY.

NATIONALLY THE TAX FOUNDATION SAYS THERE'S NO GOOD WAY TO PAY FOR PROPERTY TAX REPEAL.

LINCOLN TAX EXPERT ADAM LANGLEY READ THEIR REPORT.

LANGLEY: AND THEY FOUND THAT IN OHIO, TO ELIMINATE THE PROPERTY TAX, THE AVERAGE STATE -- COMBINED STATE AND LOCAL INCOME TAX RATE WOULD NEED TO RISE FROM 4.24% TO 12.59%.

SO BASICALLY TRIPLING AND, YOU KNOW, 12.59%, IT WOULD JUST BE A MASSIVE OUTLIER, YOU KNOW?

THAT'S THE SAME AS CALIFORNIA'S TOP RATE FOR MILLIONAIRES.

THOMPSON: BRICK BY BRICK WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THIS EFFORT AND WATCH WHETHER OR NOT THE ISSUE GETS ON THE BALLOT.

ANOTHER OPTION IS JUST TAXING THE VALUE OF THE LAND.

THIS ELIMINATES TAXES ON ANY HOUSE, APARTMENT, OR BUSINESS ON THE LAND AND ANY IMPROVEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE.

IN OHIO, A LAND TAX MIGHT REQUIRE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

PENNSYLVANIA HAS HAD A LAND TAX ON THE BOOKS SINCE 1913 AND IMPLEMENTED IT IN 20 CITIES AND COUNTIES.

RESULTS SHOW IT EXPANDED THE HOUSING SUPPLY, COMBATED URBAN SPRAWL, ENCOURAGED RENOVATION AND MORE.

WE SWITCH GEARS NOW TO TALK ABOUT A RELATED TOPIC: HOUSING APPRAISALS.

RESEARCH SHOWS THAT SOME BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES RECEIVE A LOWER APPRAISAL VALUE WHEN COMPARED TO WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS, DESPITE LOGICAL THINKING THAT THIS MIGHT LEAD TO LOWER PROPERTY TAXES, THAT IS NOT THE CASE QUITE OFTEN.

AND THESE RESIDENTS PAY PROPORTIONATELY MORE THAN THEIR WHITE COUNTERPARTS.

BRICK BY BRICK'S HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR.

INTERVIEWED ONE RESEARCHER WHO HAS SEEN THIS DISTURBING TREND FIRSTHAND.

LAGUERRE: SOME HAMILTON COUNTY RESIDENTS FEEL LIKE THEIR PROPERTY TAXES ARE RISING RANDOMLY AND RAPIDLY.

SOUTH CUMMINSVILLE RESIDENT CHARLES JOHNSON CALLS IT.

JOHNSON: INCONSISTENT.

ONE YEAR IT WENT UP MAYBE ABOUT $18 FOR THE WHOLE AMOUNT FOR THE YEAR.

NEXT YEAR, LIKE I SAID, IT'S $160, ALMOST $170-80 DIFFERENCE.

LAGUERRE: AND NORTHSIDE RESIDENT SANDY HAMILTON, WHO WE FEATURED LAST SEASON ON OUR ADU EPISODE, HAS SEEN HER PROPERTY TAXES DOUBLE.

HAMILTON: I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS FAIR BECAUSE THE PERCENTAGE OF INCREASE WASN'T ACROSS THE BOARD THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF CINCINNATI.

LAGUERRE: URBAN SOCIOLOGIST DR.

JUNIA HOWELL HAS RESEARCHED INEQUALITY WITH PROPERTY TAXES IN HAMILTON COUNTY.

I SAT DOWN WITH HER AT THE WORKING IN NEIGHBORHOODS HEADQUARTERS AHEAD OF A HOME OWNERSHIP WORKSHOP.

SHE EXPLAINS HOW THE ASSESSMENT OF TAXES CONTRIBUTE TO THE DISPARITY.

SHE ALSO EXPLAINS HOW MARKET APPRAISALS CORRELATE WITH TAX ASSESSMENTS.

HOWELL: SO BASED ON OHIO LAW, LIKE MANY STATES, THE PROPERTY TAX IS SUPPOSED TO BE A PROPORTION OF THE VALUE OF YOUR HOUSE AND WHAT'S OFTEN CALLED THE MARKET VALUE.

SO WHAT YOU COULD GO OUT AND SELL YOUR HOUSE FOR NOW.

GRATEFULLY, THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T MAKE US SELL OUR HOUSE EVERY YEAR JUST TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST.

THAT WOULD BE INSANE, RIGHT?

BUT BECAUSE OF THAT, THEY HAVE TO FIGURE IT OUT.

BUT HOW THEY FIGURE IT OUT IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN HOW A BANK'S GOING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH YOUR HOUSE IS WORTH IF YOU'RE GOING FOR A LOAN.

SO IN THE CASE OF A BANK, THEY DO WHAT'S CALLED A MARKET APPRAISAL.

THEY'RE GOING TO SEND AN APPRAISER TO YOUR HOUSE, LOOK AT YOUR HOUSE, LOOK THROUGH IT.

THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO FIND SIMILAR HOUSES OUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT THEY'RE GOING TO COMPARE TO.

A COUNTY CANNOT SPEND THE TIME OR MONEY TO DO THAT.

INSTEAD, THEY DO WHAT'S CALLED A MASS ASSESSMENT MODEL, WHICH IS JUST A FANCY WORD FOR DOING A COMPUTER MODEL THAT GIVES THE BEST GUESS.

LAGUERRE: SINCE PROPERTY ASSESSMENTS ARE DIFFERENT FROM MARKET APPRAISALS, HOW DOES THIS AFFECT THE TAXES RESIDENTS PAY?

HOWELL: GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE ASSESSMENTS ARE PULLING THE MARKET APPRAISALS OR WHAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY SELL THE HOUSE FOR KIND OF TO THE MIDDLE BECAUSE OF HOW THE ESTIMATES WORK.

IF YOU HAVE A REALLY EXPENSIVE HOUSE, ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO OTHER HOUSES IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, YOUR TAX ASSESSMENT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO PROBABLY BE A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN WHAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY SELL THAT HOUSE FOR IN THE MARKET.

AND THE INVERSE IS TRUE IF YOU HAVE THE CHEAPEST HOUSE IN THE BLOCK.

SO IN SOME WAYS THAT MIGHT SOUND GOOD BECAUSE IT MEANS EVERYONE'S TAXES ARE ACTUALLY, OR THEIR ASSESSMENTS ARE ACTUALLY CLOSER TO THAT MIDDLE.

BUT IT ALSO MEANS THAT THE SAME PEOPLE WHO HAVE MORE RESOURCES ARE BEING CHARGED LESS IN THEIR PROPERTY TAXES.

LAGUERRE: ARE THERE OTHER DEMOGRAPHIC DIFFERENCES IN WHO IS PAYING MORE THAN OTHERS IN HAMILTON COUNTY?

HOWELL: YEAH.

LIKE MANY OTHER COUNTIES AROUND THE COUNTRY, HAMILTON COUNTY EXPERIENCES A PHENOMENON WHERE PEOPLE IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, PARTICULARLY IN OUR COUNTY, BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS AND LOWER INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS, ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY OVERTAXED COMPARED TO THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS AND MORE AFFLUENT NEIGHBORHOODS.

THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE, HONESTLY, THE RACIST LOGICS THAT ARE PART OF THE MARKET APPRAISAL SYSTEM.

AND BECAUSE THE COUNTY IS TRYING TO BE RACE NEUTRAL, THEY'RE NOT TAKING THOSE LOGICS IN, WHICH IN ONE WAY IS A GOOD THING, BUT THEY UNINTENTIONALLY THEN ARE CREATING THE OPPOSITE EFFECT, WHERE THEY ACTUALLY THEN OVERTAXING THE BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE LOWER INCOME AREAS.

LAGUERRE: HOW DO PROPERTY TAXES COMPARE TO RESIDENTS' WEALTH?

HOWELL: SO THIS YEAR IS PART OF A FELLOWSHIP I WAS DOING WITH THE FEDERAL RESERVE IN BOSTON, I ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THIS EXPLICITLY.

AND SO WE LOOKED ACROSS 50 YEARS OF DATA, ACROSS ALMOST THE ENTIRE NATION, AND WE SAID, "OKAY, LET'S ACTUALLY MEASURE WEALTH COMPARED TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING IN PROPERTY TAX."

SO THE FIRST MEASURE OF WEALTH WAS WHAT SCHOLARS OFTEN CALL NET WORTH.

JUST LIKE ADD UP ALL YOUR ASSETS AND MINUS YOUR DEBT AND COMPARE THAT TO PROPERTY TAXES.

AND WE FOUND THAT THOSE WITH THE MOST WEALTH ARE PAYING THE LEAST IN PROPERTY TAXES RELATIVE TO THEIR WEALTH, COMPARED TO THOSE WITH THE LEAST AMOUNT OF WEALTH.

THE WEALTHIEST PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY, MOST OF THEIR WEALTH ISN'T IN THEIR HOUSE, IT'S IN THEIR OTHER ASSETS.

VERSUS IF YOU ARE NOT THAT WEALTHY AND YOU OWN A HOUSE, THAT'S A LOT OF YOUR WEALTH, SO YOU'RE GETTING TAXED IN A MUCH HIGHER PROPORTION OF YOUR WEALTH THAN IF YOU ARE SUPER WEALTHY AND HAVE A TON OF ASSETS.

LAGUERRE: I GUESS THAT PART IS THE PART THAT, ADMITTEDLY, JUST SOUNDS THE MOST CONTRADICTORY, RIGHT?

LIKE IF PEOPLE WITH LESS WEALTH ARE PAYING HIGHER TAX RATES, LIKE HOW -- WHAT?

FIRST OFF, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

AND DOES THIS AFFECT THEIR ABILITY TO ACCUMULATE WEALTH, ESPECIALLY OVER TIME?

HOWELL: IT'S POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF THE ALGORITHMS THAT ARE USED TO ASSESS THESE, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY TAXING THE WEALTH WHEN YOU MAKE THE WEALTH, WHEN YOU SELL THE HOUSE.

WE'RE TAXING A GUESS OF WHAT WE THINK THAT HOUSE IS WORTH OVER TIME AND HISTORICALLY AND ACROSS DIFFERENT PLACES WE SEE THOSE GUESSES ARE NOT VERY GOOD, ESPECIALLY RELATIVE TO THE INEQUALITY ACROSS WEALTH.

LAGUERRE: IS THERE A WAY THAT YOU FEEL LIKE APPRAISALS CAN BE DONE IN A WAY THAT BETTER ASSESSES SOMEONE HOME?

HOWELL: ON A MARKET APPRAISAL SIDE, I -- THERE'S ACTUALLY MULTIPLE THINGS THAT I THINK WE COULD CHANGE TO MAKE SURE IT WAS MORE EQUITABLE, KIND OF ALL THE WAY TO IF WE'RE REALLY DREAMING AND REALLY GETTING THERE.

I ARGUE THAT MAKING APPRAISALS ABOUT THE MATERIAL REALITY, SO THE QUALITY OF YOUR PHYSICAL HOUSE WOULD BE A MUCH MORE EQUITABLE WAY THAT WAS DISCONNECTED FROM THE HISTORICAL LEGACY OF RACE AND CLASS THAT HAS CREATED A LOT OF THIS INEQUALITY.

LAGUERRE: PROFESSOR JUNIA HOWELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON BRICK BY BRICK.

HOWELL: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

THOMPSON: THERE ARE NO EASY SOLUTIONS TO THIS HOME APPRAISAL BIAS OR PROPERTY TAX RELIEF GENERALLY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT IT WITH THE TEAM.

IT'S TIME FOR TAKEAWAYS, AND EMIKO, I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT TAX BILLS CAN BE COMPLICATED.

MOORE: YES, AND OHIO PROPERTY TAXES ARE VERY COMPLICATED.

AND FOR MANY IT'S ONE OF THE LARGEST BILLS THAT THEY PAY EVERY YEAR.

AND YET MANY, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS OR IS CALCULATED, WHAT MILLAGE IS OR WHAT A MILLAGE FLOOR IS, OR IF A LEVY GETS PASSED, HOW MUCH MORE THEY'RE GOING TO BE PAYING IN THEIR TAXES.

AND UNTIL THE PUBLIC BETTER UNDERSTANDS THIS TAX PROCESS AND DEMANDS MEANINGFUL CHANGE, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A BUMPY RIDE, ESPECIALLY WITH OUR HOUSING CRISIS.

THOMPSON: WELL, TO YOUR POINT, AS A PROPERTY OWNER, YOU DO HAVE A SAY SO, AND IT'S CALLED VOTING.

IT'S AT THE BALLOT BOX.

SO MAYBE DO RESEARCH AHEAD OF TIME AND FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH A CERTAIN LEVY IS GOING TO INCREASE YOUR PROPERTY TAXES.

AND THEN YOU CAN DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN AFFORD IT.

AND EVEN THOUGH YOU MIGHT SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS OR VARIOUS AGENCIES, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO VOTE NO.

MOORE: AND FOR THE REPRESENTATIVES, ONE WHO SPOKE AT A TAX FORUM TALKED ABOUT THE CHALLENGES FOR THEM IN MAKING THE DECISIONS WHERE THE TAXES GO.

IT'S LIKE A RUBIK'S CUBE.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU MOVE IT ONE WAY, EVERYTHING ELSE GETS OUT OF LINE.

LAGUERRE: YEAH, THAT'S A PERFECT ANALOGY BECAUSE I THINK WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SPEAKING ABOUT AS TO THE ISSUES OF ACCESS TO THE MIXTURE OF COMPOUNDED ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO PROPERTY TAXES.

YES, PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT THEY HAVE POWER AT THE BALLOT BOX TO VOTE ON WHICH LEVY THEY WANT TO IMPLEMENT UPON THEMSELVES.

AND YEAH, PEOPLE ALSO DON'T KNOW WHAT PROPERTY TAX DOES AND WHAT SERVICES THAT THEY BENEFIT FROM THAT'S FUNDED BY PROPERTY TAXES.

ON TOP OF THAT, WE HEAR FROM RESIDENTS ABOUT THE INCONSISTENCIES IN PROPERTY TAXES ACROSS THE BOARD AND HOW SOME PEOPLE PAY MORE THAN OTHERS.

AND ALSO HOW THERE'S LIKE AN APPARENT DISREGARD OF THE FINANCIAL BURDENS THAT RESIDENTS HAVE WHEN PROPERTY TAXES ARE JUST INCREASED.

AND I THINK ALL OF THAT LEADS TO PEOPLE GOING TO UNORTHODOX SOLUTIONS SUCH AS ABOLISHING ALL PROPERTY TAXES, WHICH, HEY, THAT WOULD BRING ANOTHER SET OF ISSUES.

SO I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT PROPERTY TAX DOES AND HOW IT BENEFITS THE COMMUNITY, AND ALSO MAYBE FINDING MORE UNIQUE AND ALTERNATE WAYS TO ALLEVIATE THE WEIGHT THAT'S ON THE RESIDENTS.

MOORE: PROPERTY TAX IS CERTAINLY ELICIT LOTS OF RESPONSES.

AND THE BUTLER COUNTY COMMISSIONER, DON DIXON, DID THINK THAT CHANGE IS POSSIBLE.

AND HE USED AN ANALOGY OF IT'S LIKE MAKING SAUSAGE.

IT GETS REALLY MESSY, BUT IF YOU'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT, YOU GIVE AND TAKE A LITTLE BIT, THAT CHANGE CAN HAPPEN.

THOMPSON: SO A GLIMMER OF HOPE.

WELL, WE'LL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THE ISSUE.

THANKS, GUYS.

LAGUERRE: NO PROBLEM.

THOMPSON: THAT'S OUR SHOW.

WE HOPE YOU GAINED A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF PROPERTY TAXES AND THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR RELIEF BEING EXPLORED AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVELS.

KEEP THE CONVERSATION GOING ON THIS TOPIC BY SHARING THE SHOW WITH A FRIEND OR A NEIGHBOR, AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK BY SHARING FEEDBACK WITH US VIA THE WEB PAGE.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, FOR EMIKO MOORE AND HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR., I'M ANN THOMPSON.

WE'LL BE BACK SOON WITH MORE SOLUTIONS.

TAKE CARE.